AMSOIL SSO 0W-30, 4683 miles, 03 Celica 2ZZ-GE

[xantonin]

Hi, this is my first post.

All comments and questions are welcome. Please give me your input. I am striving for extended intervals but running into Fuel Dilution problems, and then severe oxidation, it seems.

Car: 2003 Toyota Celica GT-S, 2ZZ-GE.
Bought: 45,000 miles, 7/2007, 1 previous owner, leased.
Current Miles: 108,265
Average MPG: 30
Last MPG: 26.8 (gone down since SRI)
Max MPG: 36.23

--------------------------
History/Too much Info:
Ran Royal Purple 5w-30 since 50,000 miles, 9/18/2007. I was doing 3,000 - 5,000 oil change intervals in SLC, UT.

Switched to AMSOIL SSO 0W-30 at 85,571 on 2/7/2010, about a year after moving to PHX, AZ. Did a solvant-based(I think?) engine flush.

The #1 sample is my last Royal Purple. Subsequent samples are all AMSOIL.

Samples 1-3 are using WIX/MANN oil filters. Samples 4 and on are using the AMSOIL Absolute Efficiency Ea15K filter.

Spark plugs changed to NGK Iridium IX at 90,000 in an attempt to lower Fuel Dilution by ensuring more complete combustion. Compression test: 170 PSI dry, 220 Wet. Even across.

This is the original AMSOIL Signature Series formula, SSO with the AMSOIL 35,000 mile guarantee, before the reformulated Signature Series 0W-30 dropped to 25,000.

All samples should be with the WIX engine air filter changed every 12 months or about 12-15k miles. (Next samples will be with an Injen SRI and an AMSOIL Ea cone filter)

No oil consumption, at all.
--------------------------


I drive very hard, hitting 8,450 RPM more than once a week. Sometimes I drive like a granny though, nice and slow, economically.

I'm considering switching to AMSOIL's 5w-40 European formula...


Finally! I'll shut up now. Here's the results.

I tried making a Notepad by copying out of Excel, the top portion sucked and I gave up but oh well, the image should persist.

Code:
Oil Royal Purple AMSOIL SSO AMSOIL SSO AMSOIL SSO AMSOIL SSO

Weight 5w-30 0w-30 0w-30 0w-30 0w-30

Date Sampled 2/7/2010 5/8/2010 7/23/2010 1/3/2011 5/23/2011





Miles on Sample 5000 4875 5698 3771 4683

Miles on Car 85000 90446 96144 99916 104955



Iron.... 8 6 4 6 6

Chromium 0 0 0 0 0

Nickel.... 1 0 0 0 0

Aluminum 5 2 1 3 4

Copper.... 14 10 6 5 14

Lead.... 0 0 0 0 0

Tin...... 0 0 0 0 3

Cadmium.... 0 0 1 0 0

Silver.... 0 0 0 0 0

Vanadium 0 0 0 0 0

Silicon.... 15 10 4 15 10

Sodium.... 8 6 7 3 11

Potassium 1 1 2 4 2

Titanium 0 0 0 0 0

Molybdenum 122 15 3 1 3

Antimony 0 0 0 0 0

Manganese 0 0 0 11 20

Lithium.... 0 0 0 0 0

Boron.... 7 6 5 6 7

Magnesium 1111 110 20 15 29

Calcium.... 2082 3093 3642 3568 3069

Barium.... 0 0 0 0 0

Phosphorous 748 608 542 635 516

Zinc.... 848 659 600 713 595



Fuel Dilution % 2.9 2.2 1.2 2.1
Soot.... %
Water.... %
Viscosity@100C 8.7 9.7 9.9 9.4 10.4

Base Number 7.95 7.5 5.58 7.19 4.88

Oxidation 14 49 52 31 60

Nitration 21 24 26 19 25


Thanks for reading!!

 

[tomcat27]

Clearly something does not make sense here. you should be able to run dino at that OCI. and SSO should be good for 10-15k. ?!?!?!?

 

[oggb]

Looks like you could take it out a bit farther.

 

[ltslimjim]

Terrible fuel dilution issues. What's up there?

 

[chubbs1]

The fuel dilution looked OK last sample but has been problematic as you explained before. I can't explain the high oxidation in the last sample but I really wouldn't worry about it (true synthetics tend to be high, but pose no threat). You have a good trend going wear looks good except for copper which is mainly leached by excess fuel. There was good TBN reserve in the oils previously run. This one was OK too but would expect better from SSO.

My personal take: This vehicle has been treated well, fuel is a problem you could go thicker or try to tweak the system mechanically. I would abandon the extended interval in this vehicle, I would also use an off the shelf oil (whatever name brand is on sale) and you can easily do 5k intervals. It would be that simple. No more expensive boutique oils and a UOA every once and a while. You are spending too much money and are not extending your OCI's so just run a good 5w30 (QSUD, PP, PU, M1) or PYB, MaxLife etc. conventional may surprise you!

 

[ltslimjim]

^I agree, generally speaking.

 

[Turk]

Should get Pablo to chime in here. I seem to remember something to do with Amsoil & higher oxidation levels, but need his take on it.

When was the last time you changed the PCV?

 

[Pablo]

Yes fuel dilution issues. What is odd to me is the Oxidation of the second to last sample. SSO virgin is typically higher than 31, usually in the 40's. I think the fuel throws it off. Point being - oxidation is rather useless unless you know the virgin number of the oil you poured in.

I would say fuel and something about this engine running too hot/emissions problems currently will prevent extended drains. I know this isn't a "sludge" engine, but it seems to be acting like one. Wear metals look OK. Watch the Na.

 

[Artem]

5.0 TBN +/- for the last few samples with the same SSO, i'd say the OP is fine and could easily extend the OCI a few thousand. 7,500 with a little top off oil should get the job done.

If he's all out of SSO and will now use AZO, that should make things even better.

You guys are overreacting.

I do agree agree that some engines simply aren't good at handling extended drains. Off the shelf synthetics should be able to handle the demands and run cheaper at the end of the day but it's up to the OP at this point.

 

[xantonin]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Terrible fuel dilution issues. What's up there?
Not sure, but I made several attempts to solve it. One being keeping the RPMs higher.

OH I almost forgot. I was adding Dominator 2stroke oil to my gasoline at a ration of 160:1 for the last sample for the entire OCI. I heard from an old mechanic that he'd been doing that to his cars for YEARS at a very very low ratio, just enough to lubricate fuel system and top end. The oil interval I did that on was the one with
It was an experiment that I did for the whole interval to see the results in the oil sample. Now that it's done, I've stopped.

Originally Posted By: tpitcher
When was the last time you changed the PCV?
Uhm, never

I'll look into that right now. I should be able to test the valves. Any other suggestions? This is good, this is the type of stuff I'm looking for.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Yes fuel dilution issues. What is odd to me is the Oxidation of the second to last sample. SSO virgin is typically higher than 31, usually in the 40's. I think the fuel throws it off. Point being - oxidation is rather useless unless you know the virgin number of the oil you poured in.

I would say fuel and something about this engine running too hot/emissions problems currently will prevent extended drains. I know this isn't a "sludge" engine, but it seems to be acting like one. Wear metals look OK. Watch the Na.
Sorry, check my above response for a possible cause of the oxidation on the last sample. I'm guessing the leaner fuel caused the engine to operate slightly hotter enough cause more oxidation. I believe I also made a 600 mile trip that interval too.

My coolant temperature gauge never indicated it got warmer. I also flushed my coolant and put in the AMSOIL stuff with coolant boost. That made it warm up faster, which was good because it would take my car forever to warm up to operating temperature.

I still have some SSO bottles, I guess I could do a virgin sample. Do you all strongly recommend that?

Originally Posted By: Artem
5.0 TBN +/- for the last few samples with the same SSO, i'd say the OP is fine and could easily extend the OCI a few thousand. 7,500 with a little top off oil should get the job done.

If he's all out of SSO and will now use AZO, that should make things even better.

You guys are overreacting.

I do agree agree that some engines simply aren't good at handling extended drains. Off the shelf synthetics should be able to handle the demands and run cheaper at the end of the day but it's up to the OP at this point.
Why do you say AZO will make things better?

I actually do have a gallon and 5 quarts of SSO left, but if this current sample comes back saying "need to change", I'm thinking of switching and selling the SSO.



Anyone have any input on switching to the 5w-40 AMSOIL European motor oil?

The main reason that I want to do that is because I have the same engine as the Lotus Elise, which has the same internals. Lotus recommend a 5w-40 weight oil, and this reason is believed to be because the Lotus is a track car, and fuel economy isn't an importance and the 5w-40 was chosen for better protection.


I think I will test again at 5,000, but leave the oil in the car and aim for 7,500 and test it at that point, unless the result's recommend changing it.


Thanks for all the input so far, keep it coming! (I used to post this on a Celica forum and they were all "derpa-derp, wuts a uoa?")

 

[xantonin]

Just took off the PCV valve and tested it. It worked fine.

I also tested the hose, no blockage.

 

[brentalan]

Leaky Injector???

 

[xantonin]

Is there a way to test that? Or do I just replace them all?

At $163 a piece I'd rather not try replacing them all...

 

[kemo]

i'd ignore what others are assuming. it is impossible to diagnose this issue when they have no idea what is wrong. If all else is fine, just keep doing what you are doing. Personally, I'd be done with amsoil and use something clearly more economical. There are plenty of other flavors on the market, and for the oci that you chose, it'd be way more economical.

 

[Brons2]

Yeah if you are only going to be running these short intervals, no reason to run SSO. Try an oil from Amsoil's OE or XL lines, they should serve you fine for these short intervals. Or just run a conventional like Mobil Super 5000 or Pennzoil Yellow Bottle.

 

[pcfxer]

The report claims that you have been using the same filter the last few samples, is this at all correct?

Also, OAI doesn't measure fuel dilution the same as other analysis companies. ~2% is nothing to worry about.

How are you gathering the samples?

 

[xantonin]

Originally Posted By: pcfxer
The report claims that you have been using the same filter the last few samples, is this at all correct?

Also, OAI doesn't measure fuel dilution the same as other analysis companies. ~2% is nothing to worry about.

How are you gathering the samples?


Good comments/questions.

I did mark on the form when I switched to the Ea15K filter... Is that considered a 15 micron full flow filter as well?

I was actually gathering the first two samples from the oil filter after removing it. After that, I bought a pump to extract the oil from the dipstick.

 

[xantonin]

Originally Posted By: pcfxer
The report claims that you have been using the same filter the last few samples, is this at all correct?


Oh, you meant the EXACT same filter, not a brand change.

Yes, I did change the filter. I'm not sure I filled out the form right, but it asks "Filter changed?" and at the time of drawing the sample, no, it wasn't.

I said "Yes" to the first few because I actually did an oil change and filter change, and then sent in the sample. With the last two, I've been drawing the sample, sending it in, and then changing the filter/oil based on the recommendation. Which so far, results in me changing them anyway lol

 

[pcfxer]

Gotcha'.

I usually say "yes" if I dump the oil and swap the filter out for a new one just to pre-empt OAI's recommendations. I've used the pump as well but the engine was not brought up to a high oil temperature and thus showed 2.6% on gas. I expected this because the gas was never burned off per se.

I've never thought that fuel would cause an oil to THICKEN over time and so I am concerned about the oxidation and oil thickening.

Can you verify whether the coolant system/cooling fans are operating as they should?

 

[LeakySeals]

Any use of fuel system cleaners? They can throw numbers off. Also I have seen leaky fuel injectors cause this. When the car is sitting for a while, fuel vapors from a leaky injector make their way out the intake manifold, through the throttle body plates, and into the clean air intake tube.