I think that would be a good choice!
Amsoil Signature Series & GF-7
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OVERKILL
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We are discussing SS above. See other comments. And AMSOIL has been making Group III-based oils for ages, even back when SS was basically just PAO-based plus Group V.
Similarly, HPL uses Group III in many of their product lines, including the ones they use for the border patrol fleet. It has it place in many lubes, particularly if you aren't trying to blend a 0W-xx.
I know they use G3 in general, but it looks like SS using G3 is an assumption but was also presented as fact. I’ll just go back to waiting for a Voa.
OVERKILL
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It's an assumption based on the fact that they call out PAO in the SDS's for some of the grades (it would appear the 0W-xx grades) and don't for others (like 5W-xx and up, where you don't need it). Is this proof positive that they aren't using PAO in the grades with the less stringent Winter grades? No, but it's a reasonable assumption that if they are calling out PAO on the SS 0W-xx grades, the ones they aren't calling it out for is probably because it wasn't used.
And there was an EU MSDS that showed GTL in AMSOIL SS.
As others have said Amsoil has been using III's a lot. In fact in the Gale Banks video Dan Peterson who is the head of their tech department I believe said they like and use IIIs and esters. In reality you could make a mostly III based oil with ester and mPAO as a VII. Just as an example not saying they are.
Just keep in mind base oil blends can be complex and a mix/combination of many different base oils. That's been the game for quite some time.
The worst thing you can do is like an oil because it strictly uses one type of base oil. Don't get caught up in that.
"Regularly in some products" - per video (9:50)
"we do use base oils for sure in this group V area"
Amsoil has been known to like "proprietary" esters.
Just keep in mind base oil blends can be complex and a mix/combination of many different base oils. That's been the game for quite some time.
The worst thing you can do is like an oil because it strictly uses one type of base oil. Don't get caught up in that.
"Regularly in some products" - per video (9:50)
"we do use base oils for sure in this group V area"
Amsoil has been known to like "proprietary" esters.
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What are these? Made by someone at their request?
Good memory on that video. I had seen it before but didn’t remember that quote.
In their FAQ they used to state that they use proprietary esters. Know one knows that but Amsoil and their suppliers. One rumor years ago was Croda but I doubt that is right.
Maybe the ROC (Russian Oil Club) will do an FTIR if they ever get. You can identify ester/AN with that. Not type or quantity but presence of.
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Also here is something interesting - weight deposit piston average for GF-7 is 4.6. dexos R is 5.4. In 2014 Amsoil SS scored a 7.7. They're claiming an even better score on current formulation that they thought wasn't possible.
Keep in mind this test is just testing the oil's ability to withstand high temperature for a long duration of time. It's not going to throw fuel, cold starts into the mix. The point of the test is strictly heat and time and how long it can resist deposits and oxidation in high temperature situation. (305F for 90 hours).
Keep in mind this test is just testing the oil's ability to withstand high temperature for a long duration of time. It's not going to throw fuel, cold starts into the mix. The point of the test is strictly heat and time and how long it can resist deposits and oxidation in high temperature situation. (305F for 90 hours).
OVERKILL
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And it's run in a naturally aspirated, port-injected engine. A turbo under load would localize heating in the ring pack area but perhaps would be harder to control for this sequence, which is why they use the Pentastar. Its predecessor, IIIG, was run on a GM 3.8L V6.Also here is something interesting - weight deposit piston average for GF-7 is 4.6. dexos R is 5.4. In 2014 Amsoil SS scored a 7.7. They're claiming an even better score on current formulation that they thought wasn't possible.
Keep in mind this test is just testing the oil's ability to withstand high temperature for a long duration of time. It's not going to throw fuel, cold starts into the mix. The point of the test is strictly heat and time and how long it can resist deposits and oxidation in high temperature situation. (305F for 90 hours).
For sure and it would likely outperform any other oil in that test as well. Amsoil SS pretty much crushes every test you throw at it. Speculating of course but they do make it extremely thermally stable.
305F for 90 hours is a long time. Just think about that temperature and that duration. Then double the duration. I personally find it impressive.
I don't see any other oil maker showing images of pistons after the IIIH.
I'd love to see VRP on that test. My thinking is it would leave deposits, but then clean them up slowly once temps dropped.
Of course the test is expensive. The lab that conducted it (SWRI most likely) said they've never seen another oil score as high as SS. And that's the lab talking not Amsoil.
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I'd like to see Amsoil make a SS Euro line. Unlike HPL which seems to stick with maximizing all lines including Euro, Amsoil sort of follows the more cookie cutter approach to their Euro line. Still great oils and I'd use them with no hesitation, but they don't go all out on that line. I asked the tech guys about that once and he said they're too restricted in the Euro area. Amsoil likely would want to use esters etc. which in some Euro oils is not allowed.
OVERKILL
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Oh, absolutely. My point was more to the other side of this, and that is given the limits established for IIIH and the test configuration, it's not difficult to extrapolate that small sumped TGDI engines may be considerably more strenuous in terms of taxing the lubricant than what is experienced here, which may work to explain the market for VRP and why we are seeing a greater frequency in oil consumption due to ring sticking as we race down the thinner oil + TGDI road.For sure and it would likely outperform any other oil in that test as well. Amsoil SS pretty much crushes every test you throw at it. Speculating of course but they do make it extremely thermally stable.
305F for 90 hours is a long time. Just think about that temperature and that duration. Then double the duration. I personally find it impressive.
I don't see any other oil maker showing images of pistons after the IIIH.
That's a very good point and likely true. Even with an oil high quality oil I'd be cautious to really push it if you plan on keeping the car really long in some of the TGDI engines. I know they use a Raptor motor for the 25k mile test but I don't know how hard that is on oil. Results were very impressive on that one as well.
OVERKILL
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I think oil quality becomes the driving factor there, as what gets volatized and produces deposits is very dependent on the chemistry of the product, not just the continued ability for the DI package to do its job. As we know, the primary role there is to minimize the formation of deposits, not remove them, and if you've got volatiles flashing off in the ring pack, it doesn't matter how frequently you change the oil, deposits are going to accumulate and eventually interfere with proper operation.
(Nothing to add, but enjoying the discussion.)
Yeah I really want a soccer mom engine test. Lots of cold/warm starts. Short trips. Idling in the school pickup line with AC blasting. Maybe some WOT to catch yellow lights when the engine is still cold/cool. 1-2 long road trips a year. Let's see who does the best with this.
Isn’t this more akin to a taxi test with maybe more cold cycles? Idling with AC isn’t the worst for an oil. Short trips not getting up to temp would be the primary thing to look for there, but adding in some long road trips would be beneficial to the oil.Yeah I really want a soccer mom engine test. Lots of cold/warm starts. Short trips. Idling in the school pickup line with AC blasting. Maybe some WOT to catch yellow lights when the engine is still cold/cool. 1-2 long road trips a year. Let's see who does the best with this.
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