I used to purchase from a direct jobber who stocked inventory and I could spend hours talking to. As I became more educated and opened the discussions up to other products and compared to Amsoil I slowly realized that he was totally brainwashed and seemed to truly believe that there was nothing else comparable out there. Amsoil could do no wrong (heated debate on the Toyota sludge issues years ago where I still feel Amsoil dealers knew the problem but continued to push 25,000 mile oil changes anyway) and that is when I started going to the warehouse directly and have not spoken to the guy since. I wish I could switch my account so that he does not continue to get my comissions as well.
Amsoil says M1 not synthetic
- Thread starter JonS
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Many moons ago on a thread far, far away, I recounted my experience with an Amsoil dealer at one of the Carlisle car events. He trashed Red Line and showed me some kind of report that claimed that Red Line did not meet API specs. I smelled a rat when I looked at TBN numbers and the like in that "report" and saw that they were in impossible ranges. (A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing . . .) He didn't have a copy to give me, unfortunately. The Amsoil rep also claimed that many people had had problems with Red Line's "acidity", which supposedly pitted bearings, etc., causing engine failure.
Dave at Red Line went ballistic when I recounted what I saw and heard in an e-mail. He badly wanted a copy of that report. As he pointed out and I've seen confirmed on BITOG, Red Line oils are slightly alkaline, not acid, for starters.
My '97 Escort has 282,000+ miles. I've been using Red Line since the car had about 110,000 miles on it. The only major engine issues involved head work due to head gasket failure (due to a mechanic's mistake) and later a burned exhaust valve; the bottom end has never been touched, and compression is at 150+ in all cylinders. (Also have run an aftermarket air intake with K&N cone filter for many miles.) No problems here! The 5-apeed manual transaxle uses Red Line D4 and still performs like new: no evidence of worn synchros, etc.
I use a few selected Amsoil products, in particular the gasoline stabilizer, which in my opinion is a much better product than the red stuff sold in most stores. Amsoil's Series 2000 oil is probably very comparable to Red Line's. But I have too many bad memories of people, including family members, involved in MLM schemes such as Amway to trust Amsoil fully in my opinion. The US Justice Department investigated Amway for 10 years in the 1970s before belatedly deciding that MLM schemes were legal, but only because product changes hands for the money invested.
Since then there have been several legal cases involving Amway reps who said and spread dumb statements, such as the claims that a Procter & Gamble rep supposedly appeared on a TV talk show and said that his company was allied with Satan, and that the old P&G man-in-the-moon logo was supposedly an occult symbol containing the number 666. P&G finally got fed up and filed suit. Amsoil reps trashing Red Line and Mobil 1 are engaging in the same general behavior as these Amway types. Also like Amway reps, many Amsoil reps are far more interested in setting you up as a distributor under them than in actually selling the product to you. MLM rears its ugly head in such cases! All of this has put a taint on MLM selling in the minds of many people.
I don't know why Amsoil doesn't consider other ways of distributing and selling its oil. Cheesy reps in the field who cause potential customers to doubt the product don't help at all. And I've never seen Red Line sold at state fairs.
Dave at Red Line went ballistic when I recounted what I saw and heard in an e-mail. He badly wanted a copy of that report. As he pointed out and I've seen confirmed on BITOG, Red Line oils are slightly alkaline, not acid, for starters.
My '97 Escort has 282,000+ miles. I've been using Red Line since the car had about 110,000 miles on it. The only major engine issues involved head work due to head gasket failure (due to a mechanic's mistake) and later a burned exhaust valve; the bottom end has never been touched, and compression is at 150+ in all cylinders. (Also have run an aftermarket air intake with K&N cone filter for many miles.) No problems here! The 5-apeed manual transaxle uses Red Line D4 and still performs like new: no evidence of worn synchros, etc.
I use a few selected Amsoil products, in particular the gasoline stabilizer, which in my opinion is a much better product than the red stuff sold in most stores. Amsoil's Series 2000 oil is probably very comparable to Red Line's. But I have too many bad memories of people, including family members, involved in MLM schemes such as Amway to trust Amsoil fully in my opinion. The US Justice Department investigated Amway for 10 years in the 1970s before belatedly deciding that MLM schemes were legal, but only because product changes hands for the money invested.
Since then there have been several legal cases involving Amway reps who said and spread dumb statements, such as the claims that a Procter & Gamble rep supposedly appeared on a TV talk show and said that his company was allied with Satan, and that the old P&G man-in-the-moon logo was supposedly an occult symbol containing the number 666. P&G finally got fed up and filed suit. Amsoil reps trashing Red Line and Mobil 1 are engaging in the same general behavior as these Amway types. Also like Amway reps, many Amsoil reps are far more interested in setting you up as a distributor under them than in actually selling the product to you. MLM rears its ugly head in such cases! All of this has put a taint on MLM selling in the minds of many people.
I don't know why Amsoil doesn't consider other ways of distributing and selling its oil. Cheesy reps in the field who cause potential customers to doubt the product don't help at all. And I've never seen Red Line sold at state fairs.
Sorry to hear about your experience with AMSOIL dealers.
But in the end AMSOIL sales have been growing at 10% or so ever year. There must be some happy people with the products.
I know I have a lot of them.
In the end.......it is you the customer that makes the final decision as to what to buy and from whom.
Now I always try to answer the questions of customers and qualify them as to what would work for them and if the product is needed or not. I DON'T/WON'T sell to someone who has a vehicle or piece of equipment that the product will not work properly in. If it's old and leaking, (and I have had a few who wanted to save the old girl) I will advise them agaisnt using AMSOIL.
It is NOT a miracle in a bottle.
We are at times problem solvers as well. Go to Wal-MArt and see who will make the phone calls and do research on what may be a product problem (OEM) or what application a certain lubricant will work best in.
Compressor oils come to mind. With the number of differing base stocks you really have to make sure products are compatable.
So in the end.........you either love us or hate us
But in the end AMSOIL sales have been growing at 10% or so ever year. There must be some happy people with the products.
I know I have a lot of them.
In the end.......it is you the customer that makes the final decision as to what to buy and from whom.
Now I always try to answer the questions of customers and qualify them as to what would work for them and if the product is needed or not. I DON'T/WON'T sell to someone who has a vehicle or piece of equipment that the product will not work properly in. If it's old and leaking, (and I have had a few who wanted to save the old girl) I will advise them agaisnt using AMSOIL.
It is NOT a miracle in a bottle.
We are at times problem solvers as well. Go to Wal-MArt and see who will make the phone calls and do research on what may be a product problem (OEM) or what application a certain lubricant will work best in.
Compressor oils come to mind. With the number of differing base stocks you really have to make sure products are compatable.
So in the end.........you either love us or hate us
Amsoil's "in your fact marketing" and "internet whore" image hurt it with some people. Others could care less. A dirrect jobber in S.Jersey that trains other Amsoil dealers is so full of it, it's scary. These are the things that really put me on the fence with Amsoil. For me personally, it's sometimes hard to over look. This guy btw, told me not to use M1 in any Toyota bc it will turn to Gell. He was also big on "smaller the wear scar the better!" Total BS.
Weird sh$T with Amway has nothing to do with Amsoil.
Amsoil has no forced buys, no minimums, etc and has never claimed Mobil is aligned with Satan.
Amsoil has no forced buys, no minimums, etc and has never claimed Mobil is aligned with Satan.
Maybe I could become a Super-Tech Representative?
The big companies play the bait and switch all the time- Castrol Syntec is the best example- now groupII, for a long time, it WAS group IV. Nary a flutter in price to reflect the lessened costs and value, just more profit for Castrol.
>>Also like Amway reps, many Amsoil reps are far more interested in setting you up as a distributor under them than in actually selling the product to you.
The smart ones will always offer the customer an opportunity to purchase products at a lower cost.
The dumb ones won't even mention the possibility, because it might cut into their retail sales.
No AMSOIL dealer makes money unless there is product sold. AMSOIL doesn't make money unless the product is sold.
Do some AMSOIL dealers make wild claims? In the over 25 years I've been handling the products, I've heard a few. Some are just from ignorance, some aren't. Have I met some dealers who conduct their business in a manner I consider at least a bit unethically--you bet. But most of the dealers and Direct Jobbers I've met over the years are very nice people, who conduct their business in a straightforward manner, and feel that a successful transaction is a win-win for both sides.
Yes, AMSOIL is a blender. Yes, they buy a lot of PAO basestock from ExxonMobil Chemical. Yes, they buy additive packages from Lubrizol (as well as others). For years, AMSOIL and Lubrizol have worked together in the additive formulations-- it isn't just something off-the- shelf from a supplier.
Far as the distribution method---nothing else worked 33 years ago. The big autos weren't interested, the big oils weren't interested. A few folks found out about it, and showed AJ how a superior product could be successfully marketed by word-of-mouth. If it weren't for the AMSOIL dealer network, the company would have disappeared years ago. As a result, the company has a vested interest in keeping the dealer network. That's why you won't see AMSOIL sold at Walmart or Costco for less than dealer cost (unlike Mobil 1).
Since growth has been double digit for the last 7 or more years, something must be working. Quite frankly, the fleets with AMSOIL accounts don't give a fig how it is marketed--they just put their orders in to the company. The retail stores don't give a fig either-they just continue to replace what is sold off the shelves.
As far as value is concerned--get over the cost per unit, and figure the cost per mile/hour of operation, along with cost of fuel, maintenance, replacement, etc.
And now I'll go pack for my Mediterranean cruise, funded by the exhorbitant profits I've piled up over the past 35 days!
The smart ones will always offer the customer an opportunity to purchase products at a lower cost.
The dumb ones won't even mention the possibility, because it might cut into their retail sales.
No AMSOIL dealer makes money unless there is product sold. AMSOIL doesn't make money unless the product is sold.
Do some AMSOIL dealers make wild claims? In the over 25 years I've been handling the products, I've heard a few. Some are just from ignorance, some aren't. Have I met some dealers who conduct their business in a manner I consider at least a bit unethically--you bet. But most of the dealers and Direct Jobbers I've met over the years are very nice people, who conduct their business in a straightforward manner, and feel that a successful transaction is a win-win for both sides.
Yes, AMSOIL is a blender. Yes, they buy a lot of PAO basestock from ExxonMobil Chemical. Yes, they buy additive packages from Lubrizol (as well as others). For years, AMSOIL and Lubrizol have worked together in the additive formulations-- it isn't just something off-the- shelf from a supplier.
Far as the distribution method---nothing else worked 33 years ago. The big autos weren't interested, the big oils weren't interested. A few folks found out about it, and showed AJ how a superior product could be successfully marketed by word-of-mouth. If it weren't for the AMSOIL dealer network, the company would have disappeared years ago. As a result, the company has a vested interest in keeping the dealer network. That's why you won't see AMSOIL sold at Walmart or Costco for less than dealer cost (unlike Mobil 1).
Since growth has been double digit for the last 7 or more years, something must be working. Quite frankly, the fleets with AMSOIL accounts don't give a fig how it is marketed--they just put their orders in to the company. The retail stores don't give a fig either-they just continue to replace what is sold off the shelves.
As far as value is concerned--get over the cost per unit, and figure the cost per mile/hour of operation, along with cost of fuel, maintenance, replacement, etc.
And now I'll go pack for my Mediterranean cruise, funded by the exhorbitant profits I've piled up over the past 35 days!
Syntec is not Group II, "different grades contain different proportions of group III, IV PAO, and V constituents, ie: esters, AN's, etc." Quote from Pitzel in this thread: http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=011890
As we have previously discussed, Castrol Syntec is blended & packaged at the ARG Kendall, PA facility.
Castrol has some very good suppliers of GRP III, PAO & ester basestocks in the northern US & southern Canada to choose from.
Aside from that, what have we seen that suggests Castrol formulations contain akylated naphthalenes from ExxonMobil?
Castrol has some very good suppliers of GRP III, PAO & ester basestocks in the northern US & southern Canada to choose from.
Aside from that, what have we seen that suggests Castrol formulations contain akylated naphthalenes from ExxonMobil?
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