I love Amsoil MTF. It's been very good except that the cold shifting performance isn't great. Now that temps are beginning to dip below 60F, I'm noticing it again. Is Pennzoil/GM Synchromesh FM any better in this aspect? My trips are around 2 miles during the week so this condition is what I experience the most.
Amsoil MTF vs. GM Syncromesh - cold shifting
- Thread starter vinu_neuro
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I assume this is for a Honda application.
Everything I have read is that newer Honda manual transmission are very picky about the fluid that is put into them. Many state to only use Honda brand manual transmission fluid. I have read of many people having excellent results with GM Synchromesh transmission fluid in Hondas as well.
Everything I have read is that newer Honda manual transmission are very picky about the fluid that is put into them. Many state to only use Honda brand manual transmission fluid. I have read of many people having excellent results with GM Synchromesh transmission fluid in Hondas as well.
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If you maybe need something thinner,isn't RP Synchromax the thinnest of the bunch?
MolaKule
Staff member
Quote:
Manual Transmission Fluids (MTL)
Fluids containing MTL Application Specific Additive Packages with GL-4 Ratings
Choosing a Manual Transmission fluid can be confusing.
Many times there is simply a specification referenced and no information about the viscosity of a fluid at 100C, where the oil viscosity is documented at the higher testing temperature.
What I recommend you do when looking for a replacement fluid is to determine the viscosity of the fluid at 100C either from the manufacturer's Product Data Sheet or from a New oil Analysis or VOA.
After knowing the viscosity at 100C (212F), one can then attempt to match up the fluid to one or more of those below:
A. The four MTL fluids closest to a Kinematic Viscosity of 6.1 (About the same viscosity as a DexronVI) or so are:
1. Castrol Syntrans FE 75W,
2. BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-3,
3. Honda MTII or MTF 2.
4. Ford FML-XT-11-QDC
B. The next higher viscosity MTL would be the 7.5 cSt versions (About the same viscosity as a DexronIII)
1. Royal Purple's Synchromax
2. Ravenol MTF-2
3. Honda MTF
4. VW part number G052512A2
5. GM Manual Transmission and Transfer Case Fluid
6. BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-1, 2
C. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Castrol Syntrans V FE 75W-80 8.0cSt
D. The next higher viscosity MTL would be BG Synchroshift II 8.2 cSt
E. The next higher viscosity is Mopar Type MS-9417 MTL 9.0cSt
F. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Pennzoil Synchromesh 9.3 cSt
G. The next group of MTL’s are in the 10.x cSt range are:
1. Redline MTL 70W80.
2. Amsoil MTL
3. GM Synchromeshs’
4. Volvo MTF 645
5. Ford Motor Craft XT-M5-QS
H. The next higher viscosity MTL would be:
1. Redline MT-85 – 12.0 cSt
I. The next higher viscosity MTLs would be:
1. Amsoil MTG 14.5 cSt
2. Redline MT-90 15.6 cSt
3. Castrol Syntrans Multivehicle 75W-90
Technology of Manual Transmissions and Lubricants
Manual Transmission Fluids (MTL)
Fluids containing MTL Application Specific Additive Packages with GL-4 Ratings
Choosing a Manual Transmission fluid can be confusing.
Many times there is simply a specification referenced and no information about the viscosity of a fluid at 100C, where the oil viscosity is documented at the higher testing temperature.
What I recommend you do when looking for a replacement fluid is to determine the viscosity of the fluid at 100C either from the manufacturer's Product Data Sheet or from a New oil Analysis or VOA.
After knowing the viscosity at 100C (212F), one can then attempt to match up the fluid to one or more of those below:
A. The four MTL fluids closest to a Kinematic Viscosity of 6.1 (About the same viscosity as a DexronVI) or so are:
1. Castrol Syntrans FE 75W,
2. BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-3,
3. Honda MTII or MTF 2.
4. Ford FML-XT-11-QDC
B. The next higher viscosity MTL would be the 7.5 cSt versions (About the same viscosity as a DexronIII)
1. Royal Purple's Synchromax
2. Ravenol MTF-2
3. Honda MTF
4. VW part number G052512A2
5. GM Manual Transmission and Transfer Case Fluid
6. BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-1, 2
C. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Castrol Syntrans V FE 75W-80 8.0cSt
D. The next higher viscosity MTL would be BG Synchroshift II 8.2 cSt
E. The next higher viscosity is Mopar Type MS-9417 MTL 9.0cSt
F. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Pennzoil Synchromesh 9.3 cSt
G. The next group of MTL’s are in the 10.x cSt range are:
1. Redline MTL 70W80.
2. Amsoil MTL
3. GM Synchromeshs’
4. Volvo MTF 645
5. Ford Motor Craft XT-M5-QS
H. The next higher viscosity MTL would be:
1. Redline MT-85 – 12.0 cSt
I. The next higher viscosity MTLs would be:
1. Amsoil MTG 14.5 cSt
2. Redline MT-90 15.6 cSt
3. Castrol Syntrans Multivehicle 75W-90
Technology of Manual Transmissions and Lubricants
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My experience in my 01 Accord was that Pennzoil Synchromesh was really no better in the cold than what was OEM.
My experience with our 03 Civic and then 06 Accords was that the new (after 2006) Honda MTF was an improvement over the old (duh... pre 2006) Honda MTF.
To be honest, though, I would never have been able to tell a difference at 60 degrees. Basically my gripe the entire time was that below about 20 I could never get into first gear without coming to a complete stop, at least with the newer Honda MTF I could do it at 3 or 5 mph... which is a big deal driving a car with all seasons and a low front bumper in a foot of snow.
My experience with our 03 Civic and then 06 Accords was that the new (after 2006) Honda MTF was an improvement over the old (duh... pre 2006) Honda MTF.
To be honest, though, I would never have been able to tell a difference at 60 degrees. Basically my gripe the entire time was that below about 20 I could never get into first gear without coming to a complete stop, at least with the newer Honda MTF I could do it at 3 or 5 mph... which is a big deal driving a car with all seasons and a low front bumper in a foot of snow.
MolaKule
Staff member
Quote:
I love Amsoil MTF. It's been very good except that the cold shifting performance isn't great. Now that temps are beginning to dip below 60F, I'm noticing it again. Is Pennzoil/GM Synchromesh FM any better in this aspect?
Both MTLs have the same 10.0 cSt viscosity specifications so I don't see any major shifting differences between the two.
You can't solve a transmission design problem with a fluid.
You could try a slightly thinner fluid for the winter such as what I listed above, such as found under Category B.
I love Amsoil MTF. It's been very good except that the cold shifting performance isn't great. Now that temps are beginning to dip below 60F, I'm noticing it again. Is Pennzoil/GM Synchromesh FM any better in this aspect?
Both MTLs have the same 10.0 cSt viscosity specifications so I don't see any major shifting differences between the two.
You can't solve a transmission design problem with a fluid.
You could try a slightly thinner fluid for the winter such as what I listed above, such as found under Category B.
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Thanks. Those are 100C viscosities. I guess I'll look at the viscosity indexes of Pennzoil (though I'm not sure if the GM fluid will have the same VI) and Amsoil and check what the visc might be at lower temps.
I have used both in my 2002 BMW 530i. The 1-2 shift can be tough in these manuals. When cold, the 1-2 shift was much worse with the Amsoil MTF compared to GM Synchromesh friction modified. I have stopped trying different MTFs and have used the GM product for the last several years. It seems to last about 1.5-2 yrs, then shifting does not feel as nice and then I change fluid. I tried thinner fluid such as Royal Purple and really didn't feel as nice as the GM product. Plus the 1-2 shift didn't feel as good.
Originally Posted By: RustyH
I have used both in my 2002 BMW 530i. The 1-2 shift can be tough in these manuals. When cold, the 1-2 shift was much worse with the Amsoil MTF compared to GM Synchromesh friction modified. I have stopped trying different MTFs and have used the GM product for the last several years. It seems to last about 1.5-2 yrs, then shifting does not feel as nice and then I change fluid. I tried thinner fluid such as Royal Purple and really didn't feel as nice as the GM product. Plus the 1-2 shift didn't feel as good.
You are aware that Amsoil does not specify a fluid for BMW manual transmissions.
http://www.amsoil.com/mygarage/VehicleLookupPage.aspx?FromIndex=1&url2=2002+BMW+530i+8
It clearly states:
Quote:
Manual Transmission,S5D320Z (5-SPD)......GLS [2]
All TEMPS......
No AMSOIL Product Recommendation
So putting Amsoil MTF is the WRONG thing to do. My recommendation is to go to the BMW dealer and buy the proper fluid. Putting in the wrong fluid would at best result in degraded performance.
I have used both in my 2002 BMW 530i. The 1-2 shift can be tough in these manuals. When cold, the 1-2 shift was much worse with the Amsoil MTF compared to GM Synchromesh friction modified. I have stopped trying different MTFs and have used the GM product for the last several years. It seems to last about 1.5-2 yrs, then shifting does not feel as nice and then I change fluid. I tried thinner fluid such as Royal Purple and really didn't feel as nice as the GM product. Plus the 1-2 shift didn't feel as good.
You are aware that Amsoil does not specify a fluid for BMW manual transmissions.
http://www.amsoil.com/mygarage/VehicleLookupPage.aspx?FromIndex=1&url2=2002+BMW+530i+8
It clearly states:
Quote:
Manual Transmission,S5D320Z (5-SPD)......GLS [2]
All TEMPS......
No AMSOIL Product Recommendation
So putting Amsoil MTF is the WRONG thing to do. My recommendation is to go to the BMW dealer and buy the proper fluid. Putting in the wrong fluid would at best result in degraded performance.
Funny enough there's a tsb from Honda that says to use GM FM mtf in cars that have grinding when going into 3rd gear. This is on the V6 6mt. Of course guys with the 4 cyl use it also with success. Make sure the bottle says FM(friction modified) on it since there are several versions of mtf.
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