AMSOIL Euro 5W-40 MS

[kschachn]

The thing is that BMW has never officially back spec'd LL04 in the US for petrol cars probably for regulatory reasons. Beginning around 2015 they moved to sub 3.5 hths 30 grades (LL01FE for N-series gas engines and LL12FE for N47/57 diesels ).

Correct but it doesn't have anything to do with the HT/HS since LL-01 and LL-04 have the same requirement. It's solely about the SAPS level.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Correct but it doesn't have anything to do with the HT/HS since LL-01 and LL-04 have the same requirement. It's solely about the SAPS level.

BMW was certifying for sale vehicles filled with LL01FE which were previously filled with LL01. Being that LL01 was officially replaced with LL01FE BMW wouldn't all of a sudden say LL04 was now okay simply because 5 yrs later ULSG became mandatory in the US. They could get into trouble from a regulatory perspective. Hope that makes sense.

B-series were developed to allow a 20 grade which made LL04 rather irrelevant.

 

[kschachn]

BMW was certifying for sale vehicles filled with LL01FE which were previously filled with LL01. Being that LL01 was officially replaced with LL01FE BMW wouldn't all of a sudden say LL04 was now okay simply because 5 yrs later ULSG became mandatory in the US. They could get into trouble from a regulatory perspective. Hope that makes sense.

What? What regulatory perspective are you talking about?

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

What? What regulatory perspective are you talking about?

CAFE

 

[kschachn]

CAFE

Ahh, as in retroactive credits, I misunderstood what you were saying. But from a technical standpoint there's little reason not to use Longlife-04 today if one wishes to do so.

 

[CleanSump]

Ahh, as in retroactive credits, I misunderstood what you were saying. But from a technical standpoint there's little reason not to use Longlife-04 today if one wishes to do so.

I do. Rationalization on a mini scale. I only need one oil for both the BMW N52 and MB OM642.

 

[chris719]

And the purpose of Formula 1's 2022 rule changes was to make races more competitive so it wasn't just the same guy winning almost every race. But purpose and effect are often at odds.

That being said, if mid-SAPS makes a measurable impact on catalyst life in gas cars without a worse trade-off to engine wear, then can you provide some links to real-world scientific studies to support that hypothesis?

Many C3 oils have higher zinc and phosphorus than your random ILSAC 0w-20s. SAPS were quietly reduced in most American oils over time it seems.

M1 ESP X3 (C3) barely looks mid SAPS, for example. It probably helps slightly with deposits everywhere and possibly intake valve buildup on GDI only engines. GM is using mid SAPS for the Corvette even though it has no GPF in the US.

 

[edyvw]

Many C3 oils have higher zinc and phosphorus than your random ILSAC 0w-20s. SAPS were quietly reduced in most American oils over time it seems.

M1 ESP X3 (C3) barely looks mid SAPS, for example. It probably helps slightly with deposits everywhere and possibly intake valve buildup on GDI only engines. GM is using mid SAPS for the Corvette even though it has no GPF in the US.

When move from API SL to SM happened, there was limit on phosphorous etc. That is why Edge 0W30 is still API SL.
Many C3 pils don’t have API designation bcs. that. API SP limited additives for XW40 oils.

 

[Bullwinkle007]

How does the oil get from the chamber to the PCV components?

It certainly can contribute to oil consumption (blow-by is combustion gas entering the crankcase), depending on the design. Honda's VCM was rather notorious for this, particularly in the Odyssey vans. On the other hand, the MDS HEMI's don't appear to consume oil and they spec a 5W-20.

Cylinder deactivation is just dumb. It’s here today because of CAFE. If the mfg can rate vehicles and it saves a 1/10 % they’ll do it. To you and I, will never see it except the cost of repairs. My car has start/stop but has a switch to deactivate it and I do. Absolutely lame and it’s doesn’t save anything for me in the pocket book.

 

[chris719]

Many C3 pils don’t have API designation bcs. that. API SP limited additives for XW40 oils.

I’m not sure about this? M1 and PP Euro SP xW-40 have normal full SAPS phosphorous levels.

 

[edyvw]

I’m not sure about this? M1 and PP Euro SP xW-40 have normal full SAPS phosphorous levels.

There are some limitations, can’t remember exactly what it is. Didn’t dwell too much into it.

 

[edyvw]

pennzoil is not 100% synthetic and has much less molybendum than amsoil. amsoil uses i think 4 and 5 synthetic oil.
however you need to change even fully synthetic oil at 5k miles. even with amsoil euro, you will build up crap that looks like burnt plastic.
its burnt hydrocarbons, which clog the crap out of your engine, and then you need to flush it or take it apart and vaccum and clean. it.
even though some manufacturers tell you 10K or 13K. that is bs so you think you can save money,

I have taken apart many engines. audi, mercedes, bmw, chevy, etc.

doesnt matter what brand, exotic or not. turbos or not.

regular oil oil before synthetic was change it every 3k right. synthetic is 5k. dont listen and be forewarned. although blackstone results will tell you the amsoil isnt worn out until 20 or 25k miles, and i has a toyota camry wiht an amsoil filter. 20K miles took it to 105K. never had. a problem. but it wouldnt have made it another 50 k without serious open the top of engine and clean it out. but i didnt know better and sold it.

if you have a built engine with steel internals even American one then you have a bigger crank and it hits the oil and makes it foam, so. you need to use euro oil which is made not to foam bc euro engines do that anyway. Any honest mechanic that rebuilds or repairs engines will tell you 5k miles change the oil even though fully synthetic. especially if you plan on keeping it past 100K with no expensive repair bills like having someone manually take off the intake manifold and heads and literally manually cleaning the crusty hydrocarbons out of it. an engine oil flush helps with a little. I also recommmend even with a 5k oil change to every 3rd oil change do an engine flush with liquimoly engine flush.

have done engine flushes on many cars and a lot of black crud comes out with the liquid but if they changed the oil every 7,9, 10 k or more, the flush isnt enough. you have to remove the manifold and heads and manually clean it out.

save yourself the trouble and use amsoil, and change it every 5k. if built engine or euro engine, use the euro version. and use at the minium the oem filter or better. no matter how many miles the manufacturer or oil company or filter company says, 5K. yeah it costs a little more. but buy a good oil filter remover, a drain pan, a jack, and do it yourself. several hundred or thousands to remove the intake manifold, and heads, to have a mechanic remove the hydrocarbon burnt up to serious engine repair and seal repelacement just bc the gunk forces the oil out of the seals bc there is not enough room or out of the top of engine, etc.

mobil 1 synthetic is ok, if you change it at 5k, but your car is an investment, your mode or transport to work, vacation, to visit friends and family etc.

if you plan on keeping it a long time and dont want costly repairs use amsoil. ive put it in almost every car ive owned, toyota, mercedes, porsche, never had an engine problem but again i dont keep cars more than 125K on the ODO.

There is no 100% synthetic oil!

 

[kschachn]

pennzoil is not 100% synthetic and has much less molybendum than amsoil. amsoil uses i think 4 and 5 synthetic oil.
however you need to change even fully synthetic oil at 5k miles. even with amsoil euro, you will build up crap that looks like burnt plastic.
its burnt hydrocarbons, which clog the crap out of your engine, and then you need to flush it or take it apart and vaccum and clean. it.
even though some manufacturers tell you 10K or 13K. that is bs so you think you can save money,

I have taken apart many engines. audi, mercedes, bmw, chevy, etc.

doesnt matter what brand, exotic or not. turbos or not.

regular oil oil before synthetic was change it every 3k right. synthetic is 5k. dont listen and be forewarned. although blackstone results will tell you the amsoil isnt worn out until 20 or 25k miles, and i has a toyota camry wiht an amsoil filter. 20K miles took it to 105K. never had. a problem. but it wouldnt have made it another 50 k without serious open the top of engine and clean it out. but i didnt know better and sold it.

if you have a built engine with steel internals even American one then you have a bigger crank and it hits the oil and makes it foam, so. you need to use euro oil which is made not to foam bc euro engines do that anyway. Any honest mechanic that rebuilds or repairs engines will tell you 5k miles change the oil even though fully synthetic. especially if you plan on keeping it past 100K with no expensive repair bills like having someone manually take off the intake manifold and heads and literally manually cleaning the crusty hydrocarbons out of it. an engine oil flush helps with a little. I also recommmend even with a 5k oil change to every 3rd oil change do an engine flush with liquimoly engine flush.

have done engine flushes on many cars and a lot of black crud comes out with the liquid but if they changed the oil every 7,9, 10 k or more, the flush isnt enough. you have to remove the manifold and heads and manually clean it out.

save yourself the trouble and use amsoil, and change it every 5k. if built engine or euro engine, use the euro version. and use at the minium the oem filter or better. no matter how many miles the manufacturer or oil company or filter company says, 5K. yeah it costs a little more. but buy a good oil filter remover, a drain pan, a jack, and do it yourself. several hundred or thousands to remove the intake manifold, and heads, to have a mechanic remove the hydrocarbon burnt up to serious engine repair and seal repelacement just bc the gunk forces the oil out of the seals bc there is not enough room or out of the top of engine, etc.

mobil 1 synthetic is ok, if you change it at 5k, but your car is an investment, your mode or transport to work, vacation, to visit friends and family etc.

if you plan on keeping it a long time and dont want costly repairs use amsoil. ive put it in almost every car ive owned, toyota, mercedes, porsche, never had an engine problem but again i dont keep cars more than 125K on the ODO.

What?

 

[edyvw]

100% Synthetic: AMSOIL fully synthetic lubricants are made from pure synthetic base oils, unlike conventional lubricants which blend petroleum-based and synthetic components. amsoil is made from group 4 and 5 base oils. no conventional motor oil in it so its not a syn blend like pennzoil. or some otehrs. yeah it has additives in it. zinc moly, anti foam if euro, but no conventional oil in it.

the real test and im no scientist dont have a lab. would to see if a group 3 just super refined conventional oil like pennzoil, then amsoil, and put them in same engine in same car model change at 5k interval and open engine and look inseide at 100K 200K 300K to see wear on pistons, and cylinder walls, etc.

mobil 1 says full synthetic and Id believe most of the big company brands that say full synthetic besides pennzoil are. a mix or group 4 and 5 oils. but unless tested could some of the others out there have group 4 and 5 mixed with 3 (not a real synthetic) or even group 1 or 2 (which technically would be a synthetic blend). who knows.

read here about the different oil groups.

https://blog.amsoil.com/are-all-synthetic-oil-groups-the-same-group-iii-vs-iv-vs-v/

i can tell you for sure conventional oil non synthetic at all even at 3k has burnt hydrocarbon sludge in the engine. and even amsoil 100% synthetic is gonna do it a little bit after 5 or 6K, or mobil 1, sure it will flow in there ok and you can go 100K. but over time the onger after 5 or 6 k you keep the oil in it even synthetic its breaking down from heat and making hydrocarbon crap burnt. you wouldnt know unless you take of the intake manifold and open the cylinder heads and look but over time changinge synthetic oil at 10K or 13K like many automakers say will end up in the same kind of burnt hydrocarbons taht conventional oil would at 3k. you can do flushes, will help minimally. they automakers dont want you to know so you have to buy another car bc you dotn want to pay to replace the seals and gaskets bc mechanics charge a lot for that. best thing you can do to prolong your engines life and keep the seals from leaking is change the synthetic oil at 5 or 6k miles.

also the pennzoil group 3 oil, super refined not lab created. is allowed to be called synthetic. but its not really. they do add more moly than mobil 1 from tests from blackstone that ive seen on youtube.

i think mobil1 is really good, amsoil is best. if you join the club $10 every 6 months, most of theier oils come to max or $2.50 more a quart for oil change if you buy 8 gals at once.

if not use mobil 1. ive seen some pretty clean engines that use it and change their synthetic 100% every 5 to 6 K. especially if you have turbos or supercharger.even if not.

dont forget sure you might get a long engine life with full synthetic mobil 1 but if you change it every 10K 13K 15K 20K, it will run, but eventually hydrocarbons will crud up the inside on top of pistons, you would never know that crap is in there. if you want to see if for yourself. and dont want to pay $$$ to have a mechanic take of intake manifold and open the heads up. do this: get liquimoly engine flush. buy some cheap even conventional oil to fill engine. drain your oil. fill with new cheap oil. and add the can of flush. let it run 15 min at idle. drain it. you wont believe the black crap that comes out.

that is the hydrocarbon crap that burnt up in there, and you can do it many times over and over and will still come out.

just trust me. change your oil every 5-6K will full synthetic oil mobil 1 or amsoil. to me pennzoil is a fake synthetic. its just a superrefined conventional oil wihth more moly than mobil 1. and castrol i didnt like what the engine looked like with their synthetic either. but I can speak from experience. I have seen mobil 1 changed every 5-6K and amsoil every 5-6K. and the inside of the top of engine was super clean, no crud at all.

but it may well be with pennzoil syn that even if you change at 5k, it would be clean inside. IDK.. any mechs that have experience with engines they know raan on pennzoil syn changed ever 5-6 K? or other. Im interested to hear.

Again, there are no 100% synthetic oils.

 

[4WD]

Again, there are no 100% synthetic oils.

Why I laugh when somebody here likes to call them fakes.
Redline likes to call one ester based with much debate on just how much

 

[edyvw]

you are saying no 100% synthetic bc amsoil is group 4 and 5 plus additives so bc of additives cant be 100% synthetic oil? like not 100% oil? bc I do think there is a difference between mostly group 4 and 5 oil made in a lab although originally it was conventional oil. I personally wouldn't buy pennzoil group 3. but I have no scientific basis to see how it compares in wear tests to amsoil. or again how pennzoil "syn" if changed at 5k intervals would. perform similar worse or better to Mobil 1 full sun to amsoil. would be interesting expensive test if a lab takes that on

All oils are mixed with different base oils. Each group has its advantages and disadvantages. There is no 100% PAO or 100% Ester base oil. I use Motul 300V 5W40 now in BMW< which is arguably the most popular racing oil, ester-based, 100% blah, blah. In reality, it has up to 40% Group III base stock. It is ester-based; it has a bunch of it.
As for wear, that is why you have approvals etc.

 

[Nesterenko]

if you want to see it, wihtout paying $$ to have a mechanic open the engine up or lots of time to do it yourself. if you put liquimoly engine flush in it after you drain the oil and fill the car with cheap new oil the filter new, add the flush, run it 15 min see what comes out. you could do it several times and will keep doing it very black crap. bc thats the burnt up hydrocarbons after 6kmiles due to heat breaking down the oil. you technically can drive more miles on the oil bc its not used up according tto the oilmaker and the labs, but its makinge burned hydrocarbons inside. the automaker doesnt care bc they want you to get a new car. if you ask any HONEST mechanic and a lot of them arent and wont tell you. they will tell you they change their oil in their car at 5k miles even if full synthetic and that is why. im not saying you might not have to change a head gasket or another engine seal after 60K miles if you cahnge the oil it at 5k miles, but if you have a really good engine you could get it to 300K or 600K without piston damage, cylinder wall damage, worst you wuold have to do is a gasket or something, plugs, etc.

same thing for radiator, use the blue or the pink stuff. way better than old yellow type coolant. it seals the possible leaks makes. a seal so it wont leak for liek 150K they say it makes a protective film on the metal parts. also keeps them from rusting. but dont flush the radiator. drain the coolant at 150K or 5 years and refill it. dont forget to bleed the air out eitehr with a kit on amazon, or leave the reservoir open and drive under 30 in a parking lot til it goes down then close it up again.

if you do these 2 things, your chances of getting stuck on road for radiator, coolant (regularly check hoses - dont wait til its 97 degrees outside) you prob wont be stuck on road bc of engine or radiator issues.

How has BITOG survived up until now without your invaluable advice?

 

[M56959]

This topic died a year ago. Dredging it up to bloviate what has been covered ad nauseum before helps no one.