Quaker State Euro 5W-40 not GTL(?)

[chris719]

Sure but from a performance perspective GTL has more in common with PAO than Gr3 made from crude oil.

I think the lines are blurred now with some of the better Gr3 oils.

 

[edhackett]

Maybe some clarification? Group III base stock can come from synthetic base stocks, but not necessarily GTL. GTL originates from natural gas to make Group III base stock. Is this not correct?

I'm not sure what you're getting at in your first statement. GTL is a group III base stock that is derived from a synthetic feedstock. Yes, that is correct.

Shell:

How the GTL production process works​

The GTL process consists of three stages:
In the first stage synthesis gas, a mixture of hydrogen and carbon monoxide, is manufactured from natural gas by partial oxidation. Impurities are removed from the syngas.
A second stage converts the synthesis gas into liquid hydrocarbons using a catalyst. In this stage, a liquid is formed which looks and feels like wax at room temperature.
The final stage is cracking and isomerisation, which “tailors” the molecule chains into products with desired properties. This yields high-quality liquids such as diesel, kerosene and lubricant oil.

https://www.shell.com/what-we-do/oil-and-natural-gas/gas-to-liquids.html

For those who want to fully understand the chemistry of the process:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer–Tropsch_process
https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/14/14/4202

Ed

 

[Glenda W.]

Does have a nice approval list on the back of the bottle!!!

 

[Snagglefoot]

I'm not sure what you're getting at in your first statement. GTL is a group III base stock that is derived from a synthetic feedstock. Yes, that is correct.


https://www.shell.com/what-we-do/oil-and-natural-gas/gas-to-liquids.html

For those who want to fully understand the chemistry of the process:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer–Tropsch_process
https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/14/14/4202

Ed

....a synthetic feed stock which in turn is derived from natural gas. Be concise. Synthetic feedstocks also have other sources. It has to be natural gas derived synthetic feedstock to get a GTL product. That’s all I am saying.

 

[ps2cho]

The real question - since QS Euro can be had for $23/5QT whereas PPE costs about $46/5qt in the US…about double the price, is there any real benefit? Say for a high performance vehicle? Daily haulers, probably not worth it and a shorter interval may be more beneficial.

 

[kschachn]

The real question - since QS Euro can be had for $23/5QT whereas PPE costs about $46/5qt in the US…about double the price, is there any real benefit? Say for a high performance vehicle? Daily haulers, probably not worth it and a shorter interval may be more beneficial.

Especially not when Mobil 1 ESP is on the shelf at Walmart for $28.

 

[4WD]

Just semantics. “ GTL is a hydro cracked group III base stock that is derived from natural gas”.

Snagged it!

 

[OilUzer]

Are there any approvals that an oil with a GTL base stock can or would pass that a group III can't?

 

[kschachn]

Are there any approvals that an oil with a GTL base stock can or would pass that a group III can't?

Considering that they are both Group III and qualify for the same interchange, no. If an approval had a specific VI or saturates requirement then it wouldn’t require a GTL base stock per se. Other Group III bases can meet that, or a blend. Nothing would “require” it to be GTL produced.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Are there any approvals that an oil with a GTL base stock can or would pass that a group III can't?

Perhaps some ultra-low viscosity oils likes 0w16 where GTL can be substituted for PAO but crude based Gr3 cannot.

GTL is superior to G3 crude in terms of NOACK.

Dated but relevant article from Infineum https://www.infineuminsight.com/en-gb/articles/uncertainty-ahead-for-base-stocks/

 

[kschachn]

Perhaps some ultra-low viscosity oils likes 0w16 where GTL can be substituted for PAO but crude based Gr3 cannot.

Of course it can as long as the VI, saturates and other attributes are acceptable. A GTL base Group III requires less hydrocracking to achieve those results but there are high-quality Group III bases besides those derived from GTL.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Of course it can as long as the VI, saturates and other attributes are acceptable. A GTL base Group III requires less hydrocracking to achieve those results but there are high-quality Group III bases besides those derived from GTL.

Are there any low viscosity crude-based Gr3 which match that of GTL? Genuinely interested because I looked before posting and couldn't find any info.

 

[OVERKILL]

Are there any low viscosity crude-based Gr3 which match that of GTL? Genuinely interested because I looked before posting and couldn't find any info.

That's a good question. GTL vs VISOM vs Yubase for example:

Shell GTL 4:
KV100: 3.8-4.2cSt
CCS: 1,000cP
Pour: -30C
Noack: 12%
Flash: 215C

VISOM 4:
KV100: 3.9-4.1cSt
CCS: 1,650cP
Pour: -18C
Noack: 14.8%
Flash: 200C

YU-4 plus:
KV100: 4.2cSt
CCS: 1,190cP
Pour: -18C
Noack: 13.5%
Flash: N/A

 

[kschachn]

Plus GTL is a precursor anyway, so you can make any grade you want including fuels. GTL is gas-to-liquids and the plants synthesize any molecular weight molecules that are useful (online they state that lubricants are actually a minor part of the production at the Pearl plant). The same is generally true for any hydrocracked product. I’d say that for a GTL product the real advantage is the lack of contaminates, not a specific viscosity.

Plus the fact they get to utilize all the stranded gas that was otherwise flared. Just don’t ask the cost of the plant.

 

[OilUzer]

Of course it can as long as the VI, saturates and other attributes are acceptable. A GTL base Group III requires less hydrocracking to achieve those results but there are high-quality Group III bases besides those derived from GTL.

Considering that they are both Group III and qualify for the same interchange, no. If an approval had a specific VI or saturates requirement then it wouldn’t require a GTL base stock per se. Other Group III bases can meet that, or a blend. Nothing would “require” it to be GTL produced.

Thanks for the clarification!

For some reason, I can't get excited about the hydrocracking levels and/or the starting base stock considering that companies are always innovating or tweaking stuff.
Maybe 5% of the elite on bitog care about that. I apologize in advance if that % is much higher if not lower!
And on top of the base stock, there are other variables like add packs, etc.

I can only look at the approvals or a specific approval if or when I want to be selective. You already read that some previously higher group or PAO oil are now Group III or 3+, etc.

Let's say one oil has a lower pour point or this base vs. that but for example has an inferior vm or add pack ... How do you account for that?

Companies can and will tweak the formulation for the better or the price but they can't tweak the spec or the tests they have to pass or the approvals!

I always seek the YouTube approvals before I purchase an oil.