Yeah I remember that case. So much depends on volume and pressure.....in all cars, but this system needs no impedence.
Amsoil by pass removed -wear back to normal
- Thread starter garyT
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For me, I just look at the massive center hole in the PS filter and really wonder if the elongated PH8A-sized full flow filter could come close to moving the volume of oil that the original PS filter can. That alone would be my reason for going with the simple, regular bypass on these and other diesel engines. Not very scientific or factual based decision, but more common sense reasoning here.
bmwtech - what you says makes sense to me!!
I say if you want a bypass, get a bypass. Don't mess with the oil flow/pressure, unless you make it better!
I say if you want a bypass, get a bypass. Don't mess with the oil flow/pressure, unless you make it better!
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Good call!
Here's the Wix 7.3 filter
Part Number: 51734
UPC Number: 765809517349
Principal Application: Ford/IHC Trucks w/7.3L Turbo Diesel (94-03)
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 8.093
Outer Diameter Top: 4.282
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 1 1/2-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: None
Beta Ratio: 2/20=10/30
Burst Pressure-PSI: 385
Max Flow Rate: 28-30 GPM
Nominal Micro Rating: 19
Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 3.967 3.587 0.340
Here's the big boy PH8A from Wix
Part Number: 51773
UPC Number: 765809517738
Principal Application: Ford Trucks, Massey-Ferguson Tractors, Oliver Tractors, VW Eurovan (93-95)
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 6.982
Outer Diameter Top: 3.663
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 3/4-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: 8-11
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Burst Pressure-PSI: 225
Max Flow Rate: 7-9 GPM
Nominal Micro Rating: 30
Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 1 2.834 2.462 0.200
Although the flow probably won't directly relate, the 7.3 return path is at least 4 times the size of the gas V8 thread.
Here's the Wix 7.3 filter
Part Number: 51734
UPC Number: 765809517349
Principal Application: Ford/IHC Trucks w/7.3L Turbo Diesel (94-03)
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 8.093
Outer Diameter Top: 4.282
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 1 1/2-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: None
Beta Ratio: 2/20=10/30
Burst Pressure-PSI: 385
Max Flow Rate: 28-30 GPM
Nominal Micro Rating: 19
Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 3.967 3.587 0.340
Here's the big boy PH8A from Wix
Part Number: 51773
UPC Number: 765809517738
Principal Application: Ford Trucks, Massey-Ferguson Tractors, Oliver Tractors, VW Eurovan (93-95)
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 6.982
Outer Diameter Top: 3.663
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 3/4-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: 8-11
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Burst Pressure-PSI: 225
Max Flow Rate: 7-9 GPM
Nominal Micro Rating: 30
Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 1 2.834 2.462 0.200
Although the flow probably won't directly relate, the 7.3 return path is at least 4 times the size of the gas V8 thread.
Pablo
In your post you talked about BMK-12 I think this system can be installed like the sf2500 that I have which uses ports on the side of the oil filter mount.
Also the metals will increase over a extended time as they are not removed the bi-pass filter removes the large harmful contaminates that cause damage to the engine.
Bill
In your post you talked about BMK-12 I think this system can be installed like the sf2500 that I have which uses ports on the side of the oil filter mount.
Also the metals will increase over a extended time as they are not removed the bi-pass filter removes the large harmful contaminates that cause damage to the engine.
Bill
Gary T
From your description, it sounds like you had the system installed wrong.
I trust it utilizes a spin on adapter with ports? If you reverse those lines, you essentially get no filtration and pump bypass level (70-80 psi) oil pressure. The anti-drainback valve acts as a one-way check valve. Reverse plumping would surely see this as a roadblock.
You would not be the first one to make this kind of mistake.
[ February 15, 2006, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: Killerbees ]
From your description, it sounds like you had the system installed wrong.
I trust it utilizes a spin on adapter with ports? If you reverse those lines, you essentially get no filtration and pump bypass level (70-80 psi) oil pressure. The anti-drainback valve acts as a one-way check valve. Reverse plumping would surely see this as a roadblock.
You would not be the first one to make this kind of mistake.
[ February 15, 2006, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: Killerbees ]
Holy cow! Does the 7.3 really have a 1 1/2" threaded filter port?
Now things are making more sense. If my post above turns out to be incorrect, your amsoil kit needs to come off. If your filter housing is designed for a 20+ gpm flow rate (sure appears to be the case), you are SOL with amsoil. It won't do it, not without a 100 psi drop. Severe restriction. You could up the line size to -12, but that will only fix half of the problem.
Now things are making more sense. If my post above turns out to be incorrect, your amsoil kit needs to come off. If your filter housing is designed for a 20+ gpm flow rate (sure appears to be the case), you are SOL with amsoil. It won't do it, not without a 100 psi drop. Severe restriction. You could up the line size to -12, but that will only fix half of the problem.
Gary T ,
i'm not too up to date on the ford ps dose this motor have an internal pressure bypass or dose it rely ont he filters bypass when the system sees restriction. Reason i am asking is that i am seeing a problem with the amsoil kit on a duramax. were as the kit seems to create restriction to the system causing the internal bypass of the motor to supply the majority of the oil that the motor needs it seems that the .375 fittings and the .405 diam hose cannot handle the flow that the engine needs.as you have to replace the spin on with these kits they do seem to be placing a restriction on the oil system. my observations show up as higher oil pressures on cold oil. but the duramax seems to be somewhat immune to the restriction because of the internal bypass. I've installed and uninstalled my system as my suspicions of restriction seem to be confirmed.
Bill
i'm not too up to date on the ford ps dose this motor have an internal pressure bypass or dose it rely ont he filters bypass when the system sees restriction. Reason i am asking is that i am seeing a problem with the amsoil kit on a duramax. were as the kit seems to create restriction to the system causing the internal bypass of the motor to supply the majority of the oil that the motor needs it seems that the .375 fittings and the .405 diam hose cannot handle the flow that the engine needs.as you have to replace the spin on with these kits they do seem to be placing a restriction on the oil system. my observations show up as higher oil pressures on cold oil. but the duramax seems to be somewhat immune to the restriction because of the internal bypass. I've installed and uninstalled my system as my suspicions of restriction seem to be confirmed.
Bill
KB,
glad to see your imput here.
To curb my suspicions I installed my system ( just hung it there) its a shame I have to use a $50,000 truck for a test bed. But these systems do seem to restrict and if the psd doesn’t have an internal bypass it will suffer.
glad to see your imput here.
To curb my suspicions I installed my system ( just hung it there) its a shame I have to use a $50,000 truck for a test bed. But these systems do seem to restrict and if the psd doesn’t have an internal bypass it will suffer.
small world geabis
I worked on a 7.3 PSD a while back and had what appeared to be some form of bypass fall out of the oil filter adapter plate.
It was a small washer that held a spring and a round "filled in" washer on top of it. I don't know if it was a true bypass, but it sure wasn't cool to have it sitting on my hand when I pulled the filter.. I put it back together and had no problems..
That is the correct size of the oil filter port also.. it is by far the largest in all light duty pickups/suvs/cars... Even my cummins is dwarfed by it.
It was a small washer that held a spring and a round "filled in" washer on top of it. I don't know if it was a true bypass, but it sure wasn't cool to have it sitting on my hand when I pulled the filter.. I put it back together and had no problems..
That is the correct size of the oil filter port also.. it is by far the largest in all light duty pickups/suvs/cars... Even my cummins is dwarfed by it.
LargeCars (BigRigs) have the fullflow and Bypass set up independent of each other. This is why years ago I installed the bypass off a oil circuit from the block oil circuit on my 6.9.. I did not like to see the HUGE filters and remote setup that Amsoil offered. A 6inch Amsoil setup worked great for me. Recently, Amsoil has changed it's position on 2004 and newer Dodge Ram trucks equipped with a Cummins Diesel 5.9 engine. Amsoil now states that BMK-11 should be used instead of BMK-15. I hate to say it, but it looks like Amsoil remote dual bypass system is causing a problem with ALL the diesels (my view)from reading lot's of posts here on BITOG. Bummer!
This might be the case with your 7.3 and Amsoil has not had enough data suggesting problems. This is why I like the STOCK Fullflow setup with a partial bypass single filter.
[ February 19, 2006, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: LargeCarMan ]
This might be the case with your 7.3 and Amsoil has not had enough data suggesting problems. This is why I like the STOCK Fullflow setup with a partial bypass single filter.
[ February 19, 2006, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: LargeCarMan ]
Below is a quote I to am concerned about Amsoil lack of knowledge of the Duel remote for PSD’s. My up line dealer is a very high in the Amsoil family and he absolutely says with out a drought the duel remote is a very good product for the PSD. I have a customer with a 7.3 800 hp engine and want to go with a bi-pass I like the bmk-11 for this application. In fact I am using a fs-2500 and I am not happy with the results so I will be changing soon. I also have a 7.3 PSD not as much hp as my friend by a lot.
How would one go about telling Amsoil about this problem so they don’t have customers that are dissatisfied in the future?
If you have any ideas lets help every one.
Bill
Quote
”A true single by-pass filter, on the other hand, takes some small flow of pressurized oil (from a point of your logical choice) and filters the oil at the "fine filter's leisure" so to speak, without messing with the flow. This oil is returned to a place of relatively lower oil pressure, even zero like the oil pan. To be honest these are all I sell. I don't sell nor recommend the "dual by-pass". NOT to be confused with the very excellent BMK-12 which is a TRUE two filter bypass? I would have recommended this or a single true by-pass filter to you. No headaches of reduced pressure.”
Pablo
How would one go about telling Amsoil about this problem so they don’t have customers that are dissatisfied in the future?
If you have any ideas lets help every one.
Bill
Quote
”A true single by-pass filter, on the other hand, takes some small flow of pressurized oil (from a point of your logical choice) and filters the oil at the "fine filter's leisure" so to speak, without messing with the flow. This oil is returned to a place of relatively lower oil pressure, even zero like the oil pan. To be honest these are all I sell. I don't sell nor recommend the "dual by-pass". NOT to be confused with the very excellent BMK-12 which is a TRUE two filter bypass? I would have recommended this or a single true by-pass filter to you. No headaches of reduced pressure.”
Pablo
I've used the BMK-13 on my engine dyno stand for years without any restriction in flow or oil pressure drop at the engine (after the filter).
Where is the oil pressure being measured, before or after the remote?
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Where is the oil pressure being measured, before or after the remote?
It has to be before the filter ..remote or otherwise. Otherwise the Amsoil unit increased flow above stock (an impossibiltiy). He's seeing 70 where he saw 48. The situation must exist that his oil pump (or other line relief mechanism) is at or below 70lb. If measured downstream of the filter ..it should be reduced if any restriction is truly effecting flow.
It has to be before the filter ..remote or otherwise. Otherwise the Amsoil unit increased flow above stock (an impossibiltiy). He's seeing 70 where he saw 48. The situation must exist that his oil pump (or other line relief mechanism) is at or below 70lb. If measured downstream of the filter ..it should be reduced if any restriction is truly effecting flow.
Yeah I thought so too, but why, ever, measure oil pressure before a filter? That seems weird.
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I'll agree, it's not how we do it in most applications. For whatever reason, Ford factored the ff filter for tremendous flow rates. This is probably an oddity exclusive to the PS due to its dependancy on oil flow for injector application and whatnot.
Update on UOA with Amsoil Remote Dual By Pass removed.
My metals (especially Iron) continue to stay at normal or below rates.
BLACKSTONE REPORT
I also contacted the Amsoil dealer that I bought the unit from. Following is his partial response concerning BMK 16 problems and oil pressure issues:
"Hi Gary, I have not experienced any issues with the BMK-16's. The Powerstroke has 2 oil pumps, HP with multiple gears and LP pump generating wear particulates where as most engines have one oil pump. I did not see any abnormal wear metal results in your report. The iron falls within Ford's limits as well as acceptable limits listed below.
As for oil pressure, oil pressure is also directly related to flow volume. Synthetic oil is more uniform in molecular structure and provides less resistance to flow therefore in order to achieve the same flow volume as a petroleum oil, which has a higher frictional resistance to flow, it is possible that under some conditions, such as idling that a slightly lower oil pressure could be noticed, but that the oil flow volume delivered to the engine is adequate for the engine operating RPM and conditions. Synthetic oil has better flow characteristics than petroleum oil and may also cause an engines RPM at idle to increase due to decreased resistance to flow, less internal drag and parasitic losses."
A letter I sent to Amsoil directly has never been answered.
In response to other,s posts. Thsi unit WAS installed correctly, I checked it at least a dozen times!
In follow up. I have removed the unit and will most likely replace it with a Oil guard or similar unit by pass unit
My metals (especially Iron) continue to stay at normal or below rates.
BLACKSTONE REPORT
I also contacted the Amsoil dealer that I bought the unit from. Following is his partial response concerning BMK 16 problems and oil pressure issues:
"Hi Gary, I have not experienced any issues with the BMK-16's. The Powerstroke has 2 oil pumps, HP with multiple gears and LP pump generating wear particulates where as most engines have one oil pump. I did not see any abnormal wear metal results in your report. The iron falls within Ford's limits as well as acceptable limits listed below.
As for oil pressure, oil pressure is also directly related to flow volume. Synthetic oil is more uniform in molecular structure and provides less resistance to flow therefore in order to achieve the same flow volume as a petroleum oil, which has a higher frictional resistance to flow, it is possible that under some conditions, such as idling that a slightly lower oil pressure could be noticed, but that the oil flow volume delivered to the engine is adequate for the engine operating RPM and conditions. Synthetic oil has better flow characteristics than petroleum oil and may also cause an engines RPM at idle to increase due to decreased resistance to flow, less internal drag and parasitic losses."
A letter I sent to Amsoil directly has never been answered.
In response to other,s posts. Thsi unit WAS installed correctly, I checked it at least a dozen times!
In follow up. I have removed the unit and will most likely replace it with a Oil guard or similar unit by pass unit
Good going.
FOLKS: DO NOT USE THE BMK-13 OR BMK-16 ON ANY POWERSTROKE DIESELS!
I have no doubt you installed it correctly. As I stated earlier you should have installed a by-pass only filter from the beginning. It's what I recommend for most all cars, let alone the big diesels and in particular one with huge oil needs.
That dealer need only check here or powerstroke forum to see the issues with the BMK-13/-16. It sucks that this stubborn, ignorant dealer made first contact with you.
FOLKS: DO NOT USE THE BMK-13 OR BMK-16 ON ANY POWERSTROKE DIESELS!
I have no doubt you installed it correctly. As I stated earlier you should have installed a by-pass only filter from the beginning. It's what I recommend for most all cars, let alone the big diesels and in particular one with huge oil needs.
That dealer need only check here or powerstroke forum to see the issues with the BMK-13/-16. It sucks that this stubborn, ignorant dealer made first contact with you.
Gary T, I currently have the Oil guard set up. But with UOA and Terry's guidance we have removed it. I was showing some unusual wear. Maybe the 02 Strokes don't like the bypass filters?
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