Amsoil ASM 0W-20 in a '99 Accord LX?

[fdcg27]

Honda has recently updated its oil specs to state that 5W-20 is "acceptable" for this engine (2.3 l, 16 valves, VTEC, 150 bhp). 0W-20 is specifically not recommended as it is for some later engines.
My guess is that a 5W-20 is "acceptable" while a 0W-20 is not is because some 0W-20s shear seriously, and some engines are fine with a ten grade oil, while Honda thinks that these engines are not.
My thinking is that Amsoil ASM is not one of the thinner twenty grades, and it should be very shear stable.
Therefore, it should be an okay oil for this Accord.
I'd like to hear what all of you think.

 

[45ACP]

The whole 5W-20 vs 0W-20 thing.. I cant understand why 5W-20 is selected when 0W-20 is available. I know conventional oil can be 5W-20 as evidenced by Supertech and i like the ST 5W-20 a lot, but the 0W-20.. well.. lets think about it:

1. 0W SHOULD beat 5W EVERY TIME. The fact that it doesnt, in cold-flow.. confuses me. (I also want to believe that the first number has ZERO correlation to high-temp "stability," whereas i used to think that 10W was best and 0W was perhaps worst there. Now i know that 10W is obsolete and useless, 5W is the most common, and 0W should be ideal i every app.

2. Honda spec'd 5W-20.. not 0W-20. Perhaps this could be because 5W-20 is easy to get in a store, where the ONLY 0W-20 i see is M1 AFE?

Maybe some people dont want to spend the money.

3. If a 0W-20 can meet EVERY spec of 5W-20 (if it likes a thicker 20, get 0W-20 Redline in the mail, its a light 30. If it likes a THIN 20, check out the AMSOIL 0W-20 SSO. Looks great on paper) then i dont see why it would be an issue.

Different 0W-20s fall into different points on the "light, medium, heavy" 20-wt range. Castrol Edge isnt even available in 0W-20 EASILY, AFAIK. And thats a good oil too, the Edge 0W-20.

Thoughts?

I sort of agree with fdgc27 here.

 

[HTSS_TR]

"0W-20 is specifically not recommended"

Did Honda actually say that ?

 

[fdcg27]

Honda recommends 0W-20 for many later engines.
Honda states that 5W-20 is "acceptable" for this particular engine, so I read that as 0W-20 being not recommended or even "acceptable" for this engine.

 

[Capa]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Honda recommends 0W-20 for many later engines.
Honda states that 5W-20 is "acceptable" for this particular engine, so I read that as 0W-20 being not recommended or even "acceptable" for this engine.


Does that restriction apply to just Honda's 0W-20, which is very thin, or any 0W-20?

 

[fdcg27]

Honda says that 5W-20 is "acceptable" for this engine, while recommending 0W-20 for many later engines, and nothing more.
If you think Honda branded 0W-20 is thin, check out Toyota's.

 

[Capa]

I know Toyota's is very thin. What I'm getting at is that Toyota allows its 5W-20 in my V8 Lexus but not their own 0W-20 because its too thin. Perhaps your Honda situation is similar.

 

[fdcg27]

I think the problem with Toyota 0W-20 is that it shears to a ten grade, while 5W-20s are almost all very shear stable.
I believe that this was behind Honda's not finding 0W-20s "acceptable" for my engine, since the owner would then need to figure out which 0W-20s shear to ten grades and which don't.
You could certainly use a shear stable 0W-20 in your V-8, just not Toyota's.

 

[Capa]

I agree 100%.

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
I think the problem with Toyota 0W-20 is that it shears to a ten grade, while 5W-20s are almost all very shear stable.


Toyota's 0w20 definitely does not shear to a 10 weight, there is not a single UOA on here that shows it thinning out anywhere near that low. In order to be a 10 weight oil it would need to thin down around 5.2 or 5.3 cst at 100c I believe, and there hasn't been a UOA posted yet that's even below 7 cst.

 

[Capa]

He was probably using hyperbole but the Toyota oil, which is already very thin, does shear easily.

 

[45ACP]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
I think the problem with Toyota 0W-20 is that it shears to a ten grade, while 5W-20s are almost all very shear stable.
I believe that this was behind Honda's not finding 0W-20s "acceptable" for my engine, since the owner would then need to figure out which 0W-20s shear to ten grades and which don't.
You could certainly use a shear stable 0W-20 in your V-8, just not Toyota's.
Originally Posted By: Capa
I agree 100%.


I agree 100% as well but now i need to take what CATERHAM says with a grain of salt since he really likes Toyota 0-20.

Glad i saw this. I almost went too far, and listened to CATERHAM 100% with the thin oil stuff.

Seems this thin oil is not as almighty as it is made to sound by he and Haas. (btw, Dr. Haas's "0W-20" oils are really mid-grade 0W-30s, if you go by the HTHS. And that should make everything Dr Haas says make sense.)

 

[Capa]

Caterham is extremely knowledgable but seems to have gone overboard with his love of very thin oils and VI. It kind of reminds me of the ZDDP people or the moly people. An oil is a blend of many ingredients and we just can't pick out one or two ingredients and claim that they are the most important.

 

[Pablo]

I want to see these studies that show any 0W-20 prevents wear better than any other 0W-20. Amsoil can't claim it - but other oils can? The argument goes along the lines of the thinner the better at start, and some amount of wear is at start up, therefor the thinner the better. I content any 0W-20 is plenty "thin" enough at start.

 

[45ACP]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
I want to see these studies that show any 0W-20 prevents wear better than any other 0W-20. Amsoil can't claim it - but other oils can? The argument goes along the lines of the thinner the better at start, and some amount of wear is at start up, therefor the thinner the better. I content any 0W-20 is plenty "thin" enough at start.



Not so fast.. Explain to me why AMSOIL cant claim it?

They already claim many things about their superiority to other oils, even synthetic ones.

I like AMSOIL its availability suffers and id probably use an AMSOIL though maybe not for quite as long as it says (not into extended extended drains past 10k) but why cant AMSOIL say that? And which other manufacturer says that?

I also thought AMSOIL didnt advertise, except with their shell sites on the Internet they either had or used to have.. for such good oil its claims and "tests" are not as good as the oil.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: 45ACP


Not so fast.. Explain to me why AMSOIL cant claim it?

They already claim many things about their superiority to other oils, even synthetic ones.

I like AMSOIL its availability suffers and id probably use an AMSOIL though maybe not for quite as long as it says (not into extended extended drains past 10k) but why cant AMSOIL say that? And which other manufacturer says that?

I also thought AMSOIL didnt advertise, except with their shell sites on the Internet they either had or used to have.. for such good oil its claims and "tests" are not as good as the oil.



Amsoil (or any manufacturer can't claim) their oil prevents wear without some level of proof. People on BITOG somehow claim certain oils prevent wear better than other oils without any proof. It's that simple.

Not sure about what else you are asking. Amsoil advertises at races, on TV, in magazines, etc all the time. Don't know where or how you thought otherwise.

 

[fdcg27]

Patman,
I am guilty of exaggeration.
The minimum KV@100C = 5.6 for a twenty grade, and your UOA of this oil showed 7.0, which was the lowest KV@100C of the UOAs I looked at for Toyota 0W-20.
I would love to hear from Pablo and Caterham as to the suitability of the Amsoil 0W-20 I'm considering using for the Accord, though.

 

[Pablo]

ASM is ideal for your Accord if you go 10K or more OCI. It is a stout 0W-20, yet will provide all the low temp flow you need.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
I want to see these studies that show any 0W-20 prevents wear better than any other 0W-20. Amsoil can't claim it - but other oils can? The argument goes along the lines of the thinner the better at start, and some amount of wear is at start up, therefor the thinner the better. I content any 0W-20 is plenty "thin" enough at start.



I fully agree. I have read that up to 85% of engine wear occurs at start. If that's true, then 0-20 oils should help with that some, especially compared to 15 or 20 w oils.

 

[fdcg27]

Thanks, Pablo!