Amsoil 5W-30, 2589 miles, 2000 Saturn SL 1.9L

[raffy]

My first oil analysis for the Saturn. Insolubles and silion seem a bit on the high side. I changed it out after 2589 miles because it has been in the crankcase for over 8 months. This car only gets driven back and forth to work a couple of times or so a week and a little around town with an occasional highway trip, about 4000 miles a year.

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[JoeFromPA]

Oil filter was only in use for 2.5k miles? If so, then the insolubles are quite odd. Look at that calcium!

 

[Turk]

Sweet! A Saturn SL UOA!

Holy Calcium, Batman!

Is it a SL1 or SL2?

Which oil filter was in it? An extended length one?

Silicon is a hair high, how old and what kind of air filter?

 

[raffy]

It is just a SL with the 5-speed manual transmission and NO power steering. Saturn had 3 trim lines for the S-cars: the SL, SL1 and SL2. SL was the most basic, low end (read: cheapest) of the S-series cars.

So is there a problem with the high calcium? I thought it was an additive in Amsoil's 5W-30 oil. This OCI may have been an older SL batch rather than SM so it might have a different additive package than the present batches Amsoil puts out. I used the Amsoil EaO-57 filter; I wonder if I got a bad one on this go round. Maybe the media ruptured or something. It only was in there for the 2.6K miles but for about 8 months.

The air filter has been in there for about 3 years or so, but doesn't have a lot of miles on it (maybe 12K or so). Maybe it's time to change it. I think it is a Purolator.

Tpitcher, I'm glad I don't have your commute, but I do envy your gas mileage! I average 38-40 mpg going about 12 miles each way to work and a few short trips around town.

 

[slinky]

Originally Posted By: raffy

So is there a problem with the high calcium? I thought it was an additive in Amsoil's 5W-30 oil.


Calcium is part of the additive package. Most people seem to like high calcium for it's cleaning abilities. Looks like a pretty good report. After checking the air filter, I'd just go with a once a year oil change with the miles that you put on it.

 

[Turk]

Yes, definitely change the air filter.

Do you happen to have the oil filter yet? If so, please open it up, take pictures and post...

 

[raffy]

Sorry, I already disposed of the oil filter. I wish I'd kept it as it would have been interesting to see what was inside it given the insoluble count in the oil analysis.

I think I will go to changing the oil once a year and changing the air filter. Thanks for the advice.

I am impressed with the additive package Amsoil puts in their oil. It may be expensive, but it sure is good stuff!

 

[cven]

Oil looks good.

If that had been a k/n or any other oil filter with .5 insolubles in 2600 miles the vultures would be calling for heads to roll.

 

[addyguy]

Looks like the Amsoil did a lot of deposit cleaning, which explains the high insols.

I love the add-pack Amsoil puts in this oil. Very, very stout!

 

[buster]

Ya, Amsoil, Redline and PP are still using high levels of Ca.

Most of the other major brands have moved to a different detergent system and have lowered Ca by about 1/3. More than one way to skin a cat.

Mobil 1/Synpower are now using about 1,500ppm - 2,300 ppm of Ca vs 3,000 + for the others. Tbn is also lower as a result. 8.5 vs. 10-12+.

 

[HighViscosity]

Originally Posted By: slinky
Originally Posted By: raffy

So is there a problem with the high calcium? I thought it was an additive in Amsoil's 5W-30 oil.


Calcium is part of the additive package. Most people seem to like high calcium for it's cleaning abilities. Looks like a pretty good report. After checking the air filter, I'd just go with a once a year oil change with the miles that you put on it.


Calcium is a "base" and is primarily used as a buffer to neutralize acids which form as a byproduct of combustion.

Instead of wasting money on premium oil and uoa's for a rarely used car, why not just use a cheap "good" oil, change it once a year and spend the difference on something you can enjoy.

At 2500 miles, I'd think you might be impressed with the ad-pack of any approved oil.

 

[raffy]

Originally Posted By: HighViscosity

Instead of wasting money on premium oil and uoa's for a rarely used car, why not just use a cheap "good" oil, change it once a year and spend the difference on something you can enjoy.

At 2500 miles, I'd think you might be impressed with the ad-pack of any approved oil.


That actually did cross my mind. I do have a pretty good stock of Amsoil 5W-30, so if I don't mind changing it once a year even though it costs more. The only other vehicles I have that use 5W-30 are lawn and garden equipment. Once I run this stock out, I may switch to something like PP (or whatever synthetic is on sale and/or has a rebate at the time).

I will probably slice open the next EaO filter I change. Those insolubles bother me a bit. They may be from Amsoil cleaning stuff out of the engine but I've been using it in this car for about 25,000 miles. Maybe these Saturn engines just run dirty!

 

[Saturn_Fan]

I have the exact same vehicle as the OP, five speed and no power steering in mine too. As I have posted before, my favorite oils in this car have been:

(all in 5w-30 per filler cap)

1. MC 5000 (showed zero consumption in this car)

2. PYB (only used 6 ounces per 3K)

3. Formula Shell (same experience as PYB)

4. Citgo Synth Blend (same experience as PYB)

Where I live it can does routinely get to -10F and stay there with morning temps at -20F. My usual routine has been to just run a high quality synthetic like Amsoil during December, January, February, March, then go back to my stash of rebate purchased dino. I also change the PCV in this car once a year with an OEM one which is key.

I am currently about to change to Castrol Edge come November as it seems to have very nice cold weather properties and I got a bunch of it for around 1.50 a quart with coupons/rebates.

 

[Saturn_Fan]

Originally Posted By: raffy
Originally Posted By: HighViscosity

Instead of wasting money on premium oil and uoa's for a rarely used car, why not just use a cheap "good" oil, change it once a year and spend the difference on something you can enjoy.

At 2500 miles, I'd think you might be impressed with the ad-pack of any approved oil.


That actually did cross my mind. I do have a pretty good stock of Amsoil 5W-30, so if I don't mind changing it once a year even though it costs more. The only other vehicles I have that use 5W-30 are lawn and garden equipment. Once I run this stock out, I may switch to something like PP (or whatever synthetic is on sale and/or has a rebate at the time).

I will probably slice open the next EaO filter I change. Those insolubles bother me a bit. They may be from Amsoil cleaning stuff out of the engine but I've been using it in this car for about 25,000 miles. Maybe these Saturn engines just run dirty!


These cars do "run dirty". Take a look at your throttle body some time after 10-15,000 miles.

Do yourself a huge favor as I have tried everything on my SL.

1. Purchase a case of Redline SI-1

2. Run one shock treatment of 1 entire bottle per a quarter to a half a tank

3. Change oil and from then on run 1 ounce per 10 gallons (you'll get a ton of use from one bottle once on a maintenance dose)

The high levels of PEA in the SI-1 really do work in this carbon monster of a car. My throttle body plate shows 10% of the carbon it used to when not running SI-1. I will take a picture next time I remove and clean the throttle body area.

Also, I keep track of fuel economy in this SL and I have increased my fuel economy to 1-1.5 mpg over the past 8 months or so since using the product.

I do not ever endorse a certain product on here over another, but this SI-1 stuff works even better than Techron and Regane and those are great products.

Also, if you PCV isn't an OEM one that says:

AC Delco CV 947 C 12, throw it away and get some. They do get really dirty in these cars.

They cost 3.62 a piece and I ordered a half a dozen (shipped to my house for only a couple bucks from Saturn of Brooklyn Park in MN).

NOTE: If you already know all of this, disregard.

 

[raffy]

Saturn_fan, so you change your PCV valve once a year! I have heard that they do get dirty easily and it's been several years since I changed mine. Guess I'll put that on the list as well along with the air filter, especially now that Saturn is being shut down.

As for fuel treatment, I have been using Amsoil PI. They have a new formulation now that you put half a bottle (for a S-seires Saturn) in once every 4000 miles. The previous formulation worked similarly to the Redline stuff you use: an initial shock treatment followed by a maintenance dose every time you fill up with gas. I had my throttle body cleaned out about 2 years ago (the throttle was sticking a little bit and had been since I bought the car). Definitely has helped the fuel economy.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
These cars do "run dirty". Take a look at your throttle body some time after 10-15,000 miles.

Do yourself a huge favor as I have tried everything on my SL.

1. Purchase a case of Redline SI-1

2. Run one shock treatment of 1 entire bottle per a quarter to a half a tank

3. Change oil and from then on run 1 ounce per 10 gallons (you'll get a ton of use from one bottle once on a maintenance dose)

The high levels of PEA in the SI-1 really do work in this carbon monster of a car. My throttle body plate shows 10% of the carbon it used to when not running SI-1. I will take a picture next time I remove and clean the throttle body area.

Also, I keep track of fuel economy in this SL and I have increased my fuel economy to 1-1.5 mpg over the past 8 months or so since using the product.

I do not ever endorse a certain product on here over another, but this SI-1 stuff works even better than Techron and Regane and those are great products.

Also, if you PCV isn't an OEM one that says:

AC Delco CV 947 C 12, throw it away and get some. They do get really dirty in these cars.

They cost 3.62 a piece and I ordered a half a dozen (shipped to my house for only a couple bucks from Saturn of Brooklyn Park in MN).

NOTE: If you already know all of this, disregard.

Have you ever performed an induction service on your Saturn?

I looked inside the manifold of my '96 SL2 and there is a 3/8" thick layer of dark, grimy carbon built-up. This can be attributed to 135,000 miles of short-trip (1-2 mile) driving and the lack of frequent WOT blasts.

I'm going to use Amsoil PowerFoam to try and dissolve some of that carbon.

Sorry for bringing this off-topic...

 

[Turk]

Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
Originally Posted By: raffy
Originally Posted By: HighViscosity

Instead of wasting money on premium oil and uoa's for a rarely used car, why not just use a cheap "good" oil, change it once a year and spend the difference on something you can enjoy.

At 2500 miles, I'd think you might be impressed with the ad-pack of any approved oil.


That actually did cross my mind. I do have a pretty good stock of Amsoil 5W-30, so if I don't mind changing it once a year even though it costs more. The only other vehicles I have that use 5W-30 are lawn and garden equipment. Once I run this stock out, I may switch to something like PP (or whatever synthetic is on sale and/or has a rebate at the time).

I will probably slice open the next EaO filter I change. Those insolubles bother me a bit. They may be from Amsoil cleaning stuff out of the engine but I've been using it in this car for about 25,000 miles. Maybe these Saturn engines just run dirty!




Also, if you PCV isn't an OEM one that says:

AC Delco CV 947 C 12, throw it away and get some. They do get really dirty in these cars.



My PCV I got from NAPA says "2226 Made in USA".

Had it in 6,000 miles, took it out and put in the OEM just now.

Put the sounds like new NAPA one in my tool box drawer for an emergency spare...

 

[JohnBrowning]

This car has deposits in it in the form of carbon and varnish and maybe some sludge. On top of this it is operated in such a way that insolubles are almost guranteed to be high. SInce you live in AL I would probably not worry about useing a synthetic in this car and use dino like a good 15W40. If you wanted to use dino I would use cheap RTS 5W40 in it. As for filtration a cheap filter is probably in order. A really good filter like a PureOne might become clogged too fast with high insolubles and deposit's.

The wear metals I suspect are mostly chemical corrision of the Fe parts and not friction related wear.

I would clean or replace your PVC and air filter if they need it. The fuel diolution is killing the flash point I suspect it is higher then what is reading now...One decent drive before chaning the oil can drasticly alter what is in the oil as far as fuel but even after it is driven off it still show's it's foot print in the flash point!

 

[raffy]

Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
This car has deposits in it in the form of carbon and varnish and maybe some sludge. On top of this it is operated in such a way that insolubles are almost guranteed to be high. SInce you live in AL I would probably not worry about useing a synthetic in this car and use dino like a good 15W40. If you wanted to use dino I would use cheap RTS 5W40 in it. As for filtration a cheap filter is probably in order. A really good filter like a PureOne might become clogged too fast with high insolubles and deposit's.

The wear metals I suspect are mostly chemical corrision of the Fe parts and not friction related wear.

I would clean or replace your PVC and air filter if they need it. The fuel diolution is killing the flash point I suspect it is higher then what is reading now...One decent drive before chaning the oil can drasticly alter what is in the oil as far as fuel but even after it is driven off it still show's it's foot print in the flash point!


You're probably right about the flash point. Interesting you bring it up, as I actually didn't drive the car just before I changed the oil. I started it up and let it run to get it warm so the oil would flow out better (which probably wasn't necessary with a synthetic but oh well!) and to get up on the ramp, etc. to be able to get under it. I was concerned about fuel dilution affecting the results so I mentioned it to Blackstone when I sent in the sample, hence the comment about there being no fuel in the sample. I suspect there was some, though, because the flashpoint seemed a bit on the low side to me.

I will still use synthetic in this car, though, for one simple reason: fuel economy. When I first got this SL, I drove it for a while on the dino oil the Saturn dealer put in it. After I changed it over to Amsoil, I instantly got a 3 mpg improvement. When you do the math over a 4000 mile OCI it comes out to about $20 savings in fuel at the current price of about $2.50 per gallon (starting to creep up again, but that's another topic). That's more than enough to offset the additional cost of Amsoil over dino. I am open to using a cheaper synthetic but I still have a good sized stock of Amsoil that I'll use up first.

Y'all have convinced me on the PCV and air filter! I'll probably change both of them this weekend.

 

[artificialist]

Some of the Saturn SL-series cars had weak coolant temp sensors that would give a false cold reading. This would cause the engine computer to enrich the fuel to aid in cold starting, and ignore the O2 sensor, which simply led to high fuel dilution, low fuel efficiency, and cat failure.

So buy a new coolant temp sensor.