The second (and final) UOA for my truck is posted here. I had one done a year and a half ago and noticed that the viscosity had dropped more than I expected for such a short interval. This interval is even shorter, 2000 miles over 8 months. This is all short trips and cold starts in Alaska, though it is garaged. The previous oil, RGT, dropped out of grade in less than 3000 miles so I was expecting this oil sample to be a lower viscosity than what was found, even though I only drove it 2/3 the miles (however, only 20 hours less than for the previous sample). (115 hours on the RGT, 95 on this sample of M1 ESP). Both oils started at essentially the same viscosity. There is some difference in flashpoint, and perhaps that accounts for less gas in the oil on this sample due to less usage. As to the rest of the difference in viscosity? Somewhat less use, sure, but perhaps the M1 is just a better product and this accounts for less shearing? I have no idea. But, as I noted in the thread on the RGT sample ( https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...100-miles-on-2020-f-150-2-7l-ecoboost.347955/ ) I just wanted to have a oil stay in grade between changes. I'll keep using the ESP for the next few years (I have a few jugs) and let it go a full year, which of course is not that many miles. Also, I noticed that the oil seemed quite opaque, sort of sooty looking compared to the previous SOPUS products that I had used.
Mobil 1 ESP 5w-30 2000 miles on oil Ford 2.7 Ecoboost
- Thread starter snowshew
- Start date
Correct, it is really impossible to distinguish fuel dilution from mechanical shear in a Blackstone analysis. But it might be correct that if the flashpoint is higher then there is less fuel in the sample.
I would not continue using this analysis laboratory for your test if you really want to know if you have fuel dilution. You’re just guessing. And if you do have a fuel dilution problem, then your choice of brand will be irrelevant. The only way to combat fuel dilution with the oil is to use a higher grade or change it more often.
Short trips in cold weather is textbook for causing fuel dilution.
I would not continue using this analysis laboratory for your test if you really want to know if you have fuel dilution. You’re just guessing. And if you do have a fuel dilution problem, then your choice of brand will be irrelevant. The only way to combat fuel dilution with the oil is to use a higher grade or change it more often.
Short trips in cold weather is textbook for causing fuel dilution.
For M1 ESP 5W30, virgin flashpoint is 450 and virgin viscosity is 11.6, so it looks like whatever viscosity you're losing is mostly related to mechanical shear. If you're really curious about how much fuel is in your oil, use Oil Analyzers, as they use gas chromatography, which is much more accurate than how BS derives fuel% via drop in flashpoint. But from where I'm sitting, flashpoint dropping from 450 to 440 is pretty negligible.
From what I've read on here, M1 ESP oils are more resistant to viscosity loss than your typical oil. It seems a really good choice for you in your environment.
From what I've read on here, M1 ESP oils are more resistant to viscosity loss than your typical oil. It seems a really good choice for you in your environment.
I know you'll disagree, but Blackstone has shown they cannot measure flash point properly either. It's the root cause of why they can't estimate fuel dilution since that's a calculation based on an ASTM procedure. Flashpoint is an inherently subjective test and has poor reproducibility and repeatabilty even with automated equipment. This variability then is extended to the fuel dilution calculation.
The only way to determine the cause of a viscosity deviation is through a direct measurement of fuel via chromatography as you note. That UOA is useless for this aspect.
The only way to determine the cause of a viscosity deviation is through a direct measurement of fuel via chromatography as you note. That UOA is useless for this aspect.
If FP is "inherently subjective and has poor reproducibility and repeatability even with automated equipment", then it sounds like any lab would have the same issues as Blackstone with that test. So based on that part of your statement, I do disagree with the part about "Blackstone has shown they cannot measure flash point properly". It's not as if they are doing something that with proper skill and careful procedure could be more accurate.
Do you know if the ASTM procedure also defines which FP value corresponds with %fuel? Or is that something BS came up with on their own?
What oil analysis lab would be a good choice? I've seen some UOA's from a lab called Wearcheck. I like the layout of their report. It separates wear metals from oil additives into separate sub grids. But am unsure if they correctly measure fuel dilution. Also, I think the Wearcheck lab reports only cost $20, and blackstone costs $30. Please correct me if I am wrong.
There is an ASTM procedure, I think there was a thread on it a while back but I can't find it now. It may be included in one or both of the flash point tests themselves. It's been a few years since I performed oil analysis and we used FTIR back in that day. Whether or not Blackstone or anyone else uses that method is unknown unless they list it on their analysis report as the method of estimation.
Here is a good article from Machinery Lubrication I found once. It calls this method a screening test or a pass/fail which I think is an accurate description:
How to Test Flash Point
Like viscosity, the flash point test has always been a standard part of a lubricant’s specification. And, because of its low cost, simplicity and versatility, the test is popular among the...
www.machinerylubrication.com
.jpg)
Measuring Fuel Dilution in Lubricating Oil
Severe engine damage can occur due to fuel dilution in lubricating oil, as high fuel levels (>2%) in a lubricant can lead to decreased viscosity, loss of dispersancy, oil degradation, and loss of oxidation stability.
www.azom.com
Thanks. I'm checking those links now.
One other reason the wearcheck lab might be good is that the Subject Matter Experts on this site use the wearcheck lab in the HPL extended oil change threads for the Dodge Durango. But I still want to learn more if it is one of the best labs. Can't beat the price at only $20 for an oil analysis.
One other reason the wearcheck lab might be good is that the Subject Matter Experts on this site use the wearcheck lab in the HPL extended oil change threads for the Dodge Durango. But I still want to learn more if it is one of the best labs. Can't beat the price at only $20 for an oil analysis.
Last time I checked with them it was $25.00 + 12.00 shipping = $$37.00 total for MOB 1 test kit.
Polaris labs is great. Amsoil Oil Analyzers goes through them. There was a thread on here where a guy sent the same oil sample to Blackstone and Oil Analyzers. If I recall, the Blackstone report showed fuel dilution was almost 4 times lower! If you have a GDI engine or have fuel dilution issues, I would run, not walk away from Blackstone. I was with them for 10 years and loved them but switched after buying my '22 Subaru Crosstrek with a GDI engine. Big time fuel diluting engines!
Edit, here is the thread I was talking about....
Mobil 1 EP 0W-20 D1 G2, 3520miles, 2022 GMC Sierra 6.2L, 2 Labs
Mobil 1 EP 0W-20 Dexos 1 Gen 2 3520 miles on oil 6020 miles on 2022 GMC Sierra 6.2L Both samples filled from same container and shipped on 30 Nov 2022 Blackstone (Fort Wayne) report 19 Dec 2022 OAI (Indianapolis) report 30 Dec 2022 OAI was a pre-paid USPS first class, no tracking # and my...
bobistheoilguy.com
Last edited:
Thanks. BS's fuel dilution method is pretty well known by now and most people on here know to add a couple of percent to BS's numbers. What I find interesting is how close the rest of the reports are to each other. I hear people complaining that BS's spectral values are always low. This report refutes that. And it also refutes that their reports are generally inaccurate (excepting the fuel%). It's sad how people seem to enjoy beating up on them with inaccurate criticisms. Just my opinion...
I have no problem with them other than the woefully inaccurate fuel dilution, which is very important for me because I now own a GDI Subaru. I don't understand why a company as reputable as Blackstone continues to use such an inaccurate method for testing fuel dilution. I was with them for over 10 years and would still be a customer if it weren't for this.
I'm not so sure it's all that relevant because you don't need it to measure viscosity. Viscosity is what matters.
The flashpoint test is more of a pass/fail where failure is considered 5%.
Gas chromatography can tell you where in that range it is, but again that's not all the relevant (1.5% vs 2.5%).