Am i the only one really disliking SUVs?

[AutoMechanic]

That doesn't really answer my question. How many vehicles have you personally seen the TCO of going from extremely low or zero to north of 150,000 miles? If you bought a vehicle with 100,000 miles on it, you were not involved in the early years of that vehicle's life so you'd have little to no knowledge about what was replaced under warranty for example, it could be the exact same rad and belt that you are knocking the 2017 Camry for. That's why I specifically worded my question the way I did.

Well the only car we have ever bought new was that one. I have every service record for the beetle and my truck from the previous owners. And I’ve seen some at the dealership but not my own.

 

[OVERKILL]

Well the only car we have ever bought new was that one. I have every service record for the beetle and my truck from the previous owners. And I’ve seen some at the dealership but not my own.

And that's the problem. You are looking at vehicle ownership over what is ultimately a very brief snapshot due to age and lack of experience. That's not a dig, so please don't take offence, it's simply the reality of being young and thus not having benefited from having multiple ownership experiences play out under your observation.

As you get older and more experienced you'll hopefully learn that the type of vehicle can have a much greater impact on TCO than the period in which it was produced. Trucks are typically much lower TCO than high end luxury vehicles. You start adding things like ///M and AMG and TCO grows even more, particularly if they are driven as intended. An Expedition and Explorer from the same era can have wildly different TCO's because the Expedition has a more robust powertrain, this was my experience, as I tend to drive vehicles relatively hard.

My SRT Jeep will have a much higher TCO than a Trailhawk or any other lower trim level Jeep. That's not because it's a newer vehicle, it's not because it's a pile of crap and it's not because it's an FCA product. It's a luxo-performance vehicle which are inherently higher $$$ to maintain. It will eat tires. It will destroy brakes and the two-piece Brembo rotors are not what one would describe as inexpensive. The brakes on my 2016 only lasted about 35,000Km, both the rotors and the pads were pretty much shot at that point. Tires were about done at 50,000Km.

 

[AutoMechanic]

And that's the problem. You are looking at vehicle ownership over what is ultimately a very brief snapshot due to age and lack of experience. That's not a dig, so please don't take offence, it's simply the reality of being young and thus not having benefited from having multiple ownership experiences play out under your observation.

As you get older and more experienced you'll hopefully learn that the type of vehicle can have a much greater impact on TCO than the period in which it was produced. Trucks are typically much lower TCO than high end luxury vehicles. You start adding things like ///M and AMG and TCO grows even more, particularly if they are driven as intended. An Expedition and Explorer from the same era can have wildly different TCO's because the Expedition has a more robust powertrain, this was my experience, as I tend to drive vehicles relatively hard.

My SRT Jeep will have a much higher TCO than a Trailhawk or any other lower trim level Jeep. That's not because it's a newer vehicle, it's not because it's a pile of crap and it's not because it's an FCA product. It's a luxo-performance vehicle which are inherently higher $$$ to maintain. It will eat tires. It will destroy brakes and the two-piece Brembo rotors are not what one would describe as inexpensive. The brakes on my 2016 only lasted about 35,000Km, both the rotors and the pads were pretty much shot at that point. Tires were about done at 50,000Km.

No I don’t take offense I’m always willing to learn. I’m pretty impressed with my older stuff though lasting as long as it has. I mean I try not to be completely biased towards new stuff. I do know they can be a pain to work on these days and those darn cartridge filter housings I keep cracking LOL. See the problem is in school we only worked on old beaters that were donated so we never got to experience what problems the new ones may have or may not we only got to hear about them and the newest systems and then of course the teacher was old school too (not judging of course) and told us how bad they were. We did occasionally work on something newer like another teachers car but it was mainly basic stuff.

 

[4WD]

Let me share my beetle story … when I was still at home my sister got a good job and new car and sold me her 67 beetle dirt cheap. Did not have it long … coming home from the beach one summer day and with music playing the belt broke and before getting clear of traffic I had cooked the #3 jug.
Wrecker took me to the nearest town and the only VW repair shop. Well the shop owner turned out to be from a wealthy family - but had a speech problem so he’d done trade school and they set him up with this shop.
He had to do lots show & tell to communicate … but opened a gate to the back & offered me a chance to buy one of his 2 rebuilds … and would give me a good trade. They were like new … everything mechanical was fully rebuilt. His bugs were repainted and new upholstery …
Told him I could not come up with the cash and had no credit. I wanted a nice 69 model with oversized jugs.
On a yellow tablet he wrote down a 2 year payment plan that I paid off in less than a year.
He also wrote down a PM plan and taught me how to do the oil, valves, and yes the belt !
Drove it hard for 3 years without any issues at all … stayed right on his PM plan.
He is long gone now but think of him when I pass by that old building …

 

[OVERKILL]

No I don’t take offense I’m always willing to learn. I’m pretty impressed with my older stuff though lasting as long as it has. I mean I try not to be completely biased towards new stuff. I do know they can be a pain to work on these days and those darn cartridge filter housings I keep cracking LOL. See the problem is in school we only worked on old beaters that were donated so we never got to experience what problems the new ones may have or may not we only got to hear about them and the newest systems and then of course the teacher was old school too (not judging of course) and told us how bad they were. We did occasionally work on something newer like another teachers car but it was mainly basic stuff.

I'll note that the HEMI is WAY easier to get to and work on than a Modular in an F-series or Expedition of the era I owned (2002). That massive 5.4L was a monumental PITA to work on and changing the plugs was an experience. I can't even begin to imagine the joy of working on the V10.

When I was in school my mechanics teacher also owned a shop so he'd bring in a wide variety of "projects". We were also allowed to bring in our own, which was great, I brought in my bike for example (GSX-400R). One of the guys had an '88 5.0L Mustang, that was one of the newest fuel injected vehicles we got to work on. This was 1995, so SEFI was reasonably recent. One of the class projects was putting a 350 in a CJ, lol.

He had a diesel Jetta that had like 500,000km on it. VW had given him a free one when he put 1 million Km on the first one. He commuted with it and racked up the miles quite quickly. He was a big fan of Mobil synthetics (what he ran in the Jettas) and was not a fan of the FRAM media endcaps, so he definitely had his biases Which of course he passed on to us.

 

[AutoMechanic]

Let me share my beetle story … when I was still at home my sister got a good job and new car and sold me her 67 beetle dirt cheap. Did not have it long … coming home from the beach one summer day and with music playing the belt broke and before getting clear of traffic I had cooked the #3 jug.
Wrecker took me to the nearest town and the only VW repair shop. Well the shop owner turned out to be from a wealthy family - but had a speech problem so he’d done trade school and they set him up with this shop.
He had to do lots show & tell to communicate … but opened a gate to the back & offered me a chance to buy one of his 2 rebuilds … and would give me a good trade. They were like new … everything mechanical was fully rebuilt. His bugs were repainted and new upholstery …
Told him I could not come up with the cash and had no credit. I wanted a nice 69 model with oversized jugs.
On a yellow tablet he wrote down a 2 year payment plan that I paid off in less than a year.
He also wrote down a PM plan and taught me how to do the oil, valves, and yes the belt !
Drove it hard for 3 years without any issues at all … stayed right on his PM plan.
He is long gone now but think of him when I pass by that old building …

My dad had a royal blue 67 he loved that thing he delivered papers in it. He sold it to his sister and she crashed it into a trailer in a trailer park so with 80k original miles on it it was a goner.

 

[AutoMechanic]

I'll note that the HEMI is WAY easier to get to and work on than a Modular in an F-series or Expedition of the era I owned (2002). That massive 5.4L was a monumental PITA to work on and changing the plugs was an experience. I can't even begin to imagine the joy of working on the V10.

When I was in school my mechanics teacher also owned a shop so he'd bring in a wide variety of "projects". We were also allowed to bring in our own, which was great, I brought in my bike for example (GSX-400R). One of the guys had an '88 5.0L Mustang, that was one of the newest fuel injected vehicles we got to work on. This was 1995, so SEFI was reasonably recent. One of the class projects was putting a 350 in a CJ, lol.

He had a diesel Jetta that had like 500,000km on it. VW had given him a free one when he put 1 million Km on the first one. He commuted with it and racked up the miles quite quickly. He was a big fan of Mobil synthetics (what he ran in the Jettas) and was not a fan of the FRAM media endcaps, so he definitely had his biases Which of course he passed on to us.

I’ve dealt with those 5.4 I have too many friends with them lol. We could bring in our own things too which me and 2 other people had something other than a Jeep Cherokee lol I had my Mazda and my friend had a 1995 F150 and my other friend had a 1986 Ford Bronco II. Some of the other people in the other classes that met at different times had various cars that we worked on occasionally if they left them there. My teacher has 4 VW Beetles (5 before I bought mine from him) and he always let me work on those because he knew how much I loved them, he taught me why points and condensers were pieces of junk lol. Also has a 1961 Ford Galaxy Starliner. He also only allowed me to work on the schools box truck because everyone else pretty much didn’t know concepts of commercial trucks and where I fix my dads semi all the time I was the perfect one to do it. He owned a Nissan Quest as his DD we had to do some work to it but not much. But no one in the class had any new stuff for us to work on so that’s the problem. But I did like the Ford factory training we did and Toyota factory training too.

 

[OVERKILL]

I’ve dealt with those 5.4 I have too many friends with them lol. We could bring in our own things too which me and 2 other people had something other than a Jeep Cherokee lol I had my Mazda and my friend had a 1995 F150 and my other friend had a 1986 Ford Bronco II. Some of the other people in the other classes that met at different times had various cars that we worked on occasionally if they left them there. My teacher has 4 VW Beetles (5 before I bought mine from him) and he always let me work on those because he knew how much I loved them, he taught me why points and condensers were pieces of junk lol. Also has a 1961 Ford Galaxy Starliner. He also only allowed me to work on the schools box truck because everyone else pretty much didn’t know concepts of commercial trucks and where I fix my dads semi all the time I was the perfect one to do it. He owned a Nissan Quest as his DD we had to do some work to it but not much. But no one in the class had any new stuff for us to work on so that’s the problem. But I did like the Ford factory training we did and Toyota factory training too.

You might get some amusement out of this thread from 10 years ago when my Expedition launched #4:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/pop-goes-the-spark-plug.143151/

 

[Wolf359]

I don't know, it seems like usually when someone on here is shopping for something bare bones with the minimum amount of features, they are shopping new vehicles.

I drive older vehicles and am not against options. My Explorer is far from loaded, but does have 8 way power seats with power lumbar, keyless entry, speed sensitive auto door locks, 4 wheel disc brakes, etc. A fully loaded (well, maybe no sunroof) 5.0 Eddie Bauer would have been even better, but I got what was available at the time. In either case there are plenty of modules and things in an even half way loaded 20+ year old Explorer.

There's a difference between buying them new and buying them used. Mine had about 10k worth of extra options, the base models are more like just the basic package plus a couple items so usually just 2-4k worth of options. However when I bought mine used, I think I probably just paid 1-2k more than a base model car. Only reason for that is that I got it about 3 days after it hit the market, the high option cars don't sit around long, the ones without options tend to go down in price after a while when they sit. I ended up paying between average and clean wholesale trade in at the time at a dealer.

Also once you drive a car with all the options, you kinda wonder how you'd go back to driving something more basic. Probably why power windows/locks and A/C are all pretty standard these days but my first car didn't have any of that. Also at the time I was also looking at a Ford Taurus, they didn't have a good way to decode the vin, you could look up the window sticker but that stopped after a while and the dealers didn't know how to describe the car with the various option packages, saying it has power windows/locks doesn't really say anything when they all have that. At least MB had a vin decoder to tell you exactly what options it had and you could match them up to a list of options available when buying it new. I probably ran a couple hundred cars though a vin decoder til I found the one I wanted.

 

[supton]

I dunno, pre-pandemic I was driving piles and thus anything would age out on me quickly. I still don't want to be the statistical anomaly--I don't want to be the one guy who lose an engine a day outside of warranty (a day, a month, whatever it takes to be on my dime). Engine, trans, whatever. They're all a gamble and it takes years to find out if you chose correctly--or not. And if you did make a mistake, then it's something that you'll remember for the rest of your life.

 

[clinebarger]

I don't think he's anywhere near as close to it as others on here with significantly more experience like @The Critic @clinebarger @Trav ..etc and none of which appear to be allergic to newer vehicles.

The dealer mechanics I know also have no aversion to newer vehicles and that's what they drive and put their families in.

Got no problem with new vehicles.....I drive older cars because I don't want to buy new ones & rust isn't a factor here.

 

[zzyzzx]

It's really not a matter of hating SUV's as much as it is a matter of a lack of alternative choices like a regular hatchback that's an actual hatchback. Like my 1985 and 1995 Ford Escorts. What they label as a "hatchback" today is really just a small station wagon in appeareance.

Hatchback:

But this is really just small station wagon:

My point being that they actually think that if I can't get what I really want, I'll buy a SUV since it's the closest thing and/or not giving people a choice is actually OK. They will claim that certain cars won't sell, but they sell millions of them outside the US and won't bother making a US speced version of something that they sell lots of elsewhere. It's not the SUV's that I hate, it's the lack of an alternatives.

To further rant, if you do buy one of the above pictured vehicles that's really a small station wagon, you'll end with with a CVT or dual clutch transmission that you won't get with a SUV. It's just another way to encourage you to get a SUV.

 

[Falcon_LS]

The only reason I like SUVs is because of body-on-frame construction, otherwise I would stick to sedans. When I use the term "SUV", I'm thinking of vehicles like the Chevrolet Tahoe/GMC Yukon, Ford Expedition, etc. in today's market. I am not a fan of CUVs.

 

[demarpaint]

I'm not a fan of cars.

When I drive in one I feel like I'm sitting in a hole. Go figure.

 

[bbhero]

One thing about SUVs or CUVs...

The are much easier for older people to get in and out of....

The hip and knee angles are much easier to get our of higher vehicle vs lower vehicles.

We have a fair amount of older people in this country.

 

[RooflessVW]

It's really not a matter of hating SUV's as much as it is a matter of a lack of alternative choices like a regular hatchback that's an actual hatchback. Like my 1985 and 1995 Ford Escorts. What they label as a "hatchback" today is really just a small station wagon in appeareance.

Hatchback:

But this is really just small station wagon:

My point being that they actually think that if I can't get what I really want, I'll buy a SUV since it's the closest thing and/or not giving people a choice is actually OK. They will claim that certain cars won't sell, but they sell millions of them outside the US and won't bother making a US speced version of something that they sell lots of elsewhere. It's not the SUV's that I hate, it's the lack of an alternatives.

To further rant, if you do buy one of the above pictured vehicles that's really a small station wagon, you'll end with with a CVT or dual clutch transmission that you won't get with a SUV. It's just another way to encourage you to get a SUV.

It's funny, because the "small station wagon" you posted is the latest in a lineage that has set the standard for what a hatchback should be.

It's also available with a manual, so...

And your beloved Ford Escort is a liftback.

 

[CharBaby]

I too am not the biggest fan of SUV/CUV but, I have driven ones that I do in fact like better the some others.

 

[CourierDriver]

Its a clone car world these days especially in the SUV crowd,,,not much imagination, well maybe in the dashboard which IMHO is a night mare to operate, but if your 12 years old is easy-- why,,because the younger crowd plays video games all day and they are use to it,,,again IMHO,,,,IM old .74 and now you can understand where Im coming from,,,yes l miss the old knobs and needle gauges,,,lol now where did I park my 442 olds?????????????????????

 

[zzyzzx]

I too am not the biggest fan of SUV/CUV but, I have driven ones that I do in fact like better the some others.

Some of the more car like ones are less objectionable (like the 2013 - Ford Escape)

 

[xBa380]

I don't mind SUV/CUV's, but the benefits in room and versatility often come at the expense of fun (power, suspension, COG, etc...)