Am I right? or am I wrong?

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Donald
Amsoil a high quality oil typically does not pay money for testing so it can be listed as "approved" for a given spec.

They do however make sure their oil meets or exceeds the specs when they say "recommended" for a certain vehicle.

Wait, Amsoil does not have $5,500 to pay VW for testing???

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
I have been having what seems to be a debate over "Engine Oil OEM approvals" on a forum for the type of car I have. Folks on the forums are stating that Amsoil is OEM approved for 502 use. I argued that it isnt approved by the manufacturer rather it "meet or exceeds" the 502 specs set by the manufacturer. In no way was I saying that Amsoil or even Redline (also mentioned) are not good oils, I just was stating the fact that they both do not carry any OEM manufacturer approvals. My guess is due to the cost do obtain them.

Am I right? or Wrong?

Jeff


I actually saw paper that approves certain oil for VW.
The cost of approval for VW 504.00/507.00 for that oil was 3,200 euros.
I will try to obtain that paper in pdf file so finally we stop discussing about this nonsense that it is too expensive to obtain it, or that Amsoil or Redline does not want to pay for whatever "higher" cause!

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Donald
Amsoil a high quality oil typically does not pay money for testing so it can be listed as "approved" for a given spec.

They do however make sure their oil meets or exceeds the specs when they say "recommended" for a certain vehicle.

Wait, Amsoil does not have $5,500 to pay VW for testing???



I'm sure they can easily afford it, but they aren't interested in becoming a service fluid. They already have a market.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Nah I think it does come down to money and I'm sure it's way more than $5500 or they would do it. There must be more to it.

If you were them wouldn't you want the approvals to broaden your sales? I would.

Jeff

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

I'm still getting bashed on the vw forums. Oh well. Ha ha.

Jeff

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
I'm still getting bashed on the vw forums. Oh well. Ha ha.

Jeff



It's the Internet, what did you expect? I rarely bother on the car forums. Arguing with idiots is just a waste of energy.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Donald
Amsoil a high quality oil typically does not pay money for testing so it can be listed as "approved" for a given spec.

They do however make sure their oil meets or exceeds the specs when they say "recommended" for a certain vehicle.

Wait, Amsoil does not have $5,500 to pay VW for testing???



I'm sure they can easily afford it, but they aren't interested in becoming a service fluid. They already have a market.


Are you serious? What is it? They hate money?

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Nah I think it does come down to money and I'm sure it's way more than $5500 or they would do it. There must be more to it.

If you were them wouldn't you want the approvals to broaden your sales? I would.

Jeff

I have already tell you. I saw paper, and I was part of testing that oil in VW Polo 1.2tdi (CR engine).
Our purpose of test was to [censored] the car after driving 50,000km in 2 months. We were supplied with that oil and company collected used oil after change. After they got certicifate from VW they sent us all paper work from VW.
This notion that it is too expensive is nonsense.
By this, I am not saying those oil cannot meet specifications. However, either they are not interested to focus more on Euro car market, and they are not present in the EU very much anyway, or there is something specific in oils that they think it is working for Euro cars, but they know it cannot meet specs, whatever that is.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Yeah I am not sure. To me IMO if I was selling an oil lets say for example is equivalent to a 502 spec oil, and it only cost $5k to get the "official" stamp of approval from the manufacturer? I would do it. So something isn't adding up here if it was that easy. It would expand their market and bring in more customers. The testing that you did EDYVW was that here in the USA or Europe?

The purpose of the post was just this. Is Amsoil or Redline OEM approved for VW. I said No it was not. On the forums they state since the oil "meets or exceeds VW 502" that VW would have to cover warranty claims. I disagreed. Why give a manufacturer an excuse to NOT cover your claim if you ever had one?

Personally, I like Redline, and folks that have read my posts over the years have seen the used oil analysis on my past tracked Evo 9's and the 5w30 Redline was the shizzle for me. Mitsubishi wasn't so "picky" with what oil you put in as long as it met a certain API standard (of which does Redline even have?). VW on the other hand is very specific about what it wants in its engines. I feel Redline would be a great oil to use, so would Amsoil, but when I can get 502 approved Mobil 1 0w40 for half the price at Walmart?? What would be the point?

Jeff

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Yeah I am not sure. To me IMO if I was selling an oil lets say for example is equivalent to a 502 spec oil, and it only cost $5k to get the "official" stamp of approval from the manufacturer? I would do it. So something isn't adding up here if it was that easy. It would expand their market and bring in more customers. The testing that you did EDYVW was that here in the USA or Europe?

The purpose of the post was just this. Is Amsoil or Redline OEM approved for VW. I said No it was not. On the forums they state since the oil "meets or exceeds VW 502" that VW would have to cover warranty claims. I disagreed. Why give a manufacturer an excuse to NOT cover your claim if you ever had one?

Personally, I like Redline, and folks that have read my posts over the years have seen the used oil analysis on my past tracked Evo 9's and the 5w30 Redline was the shizzle for me. Mitsubishi wasn't so "picky" with what oil you put in as long as it met a certain API standard (of which does Redline even have?). VW on the other hand is very specific about what it wants in its engines. I feel Redline would be a great oil to use, so would Amsoil, but when I can get 502 approved Mobil 1 0w40 for half the price at Walmart?? What would be the point?

Jeff


Testing was in Europe. But that does not make any difference. Oil was sent to VW separate of our testing. We tested car and oil. We came to conclusion after tearing apart engine at local VW dealership that after 50k, engine had same tear and wear as with VW "house" oil, although we used oil that no one here probably ever heard of.
The reason why I know how much they paid is that they posted us with all info. That company is VERY, VERY small. For them Redline or Amsoil are giants, so if they could pay then....

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Mmmmm them maybe in the USA to obtain the manufacturer approvals here the product needs to pass API testing? That I know costs bucks.

Jeff

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Mmmmm them maybe in the USA to obtain the manufacturer approvals here the product needs to pass API testing? That I know costs bucks.

Jeff

Well this oil producer also has all API approvals.
Oil producers in Europe also send oils to API for approvals. I have never seen Euro oil without API approval in Europe except Castrol LL-03.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

One thing I will admit is Amsoil cP for their 5w40 full saps oil which I would call M1's 0w40 competitor is WAY better. cP of 5400 vs M1's 31000 that is huge!

Everything else seems to bea wash between the 2.

Would this be a good reason to switch to Amsoil? Maybe if you live in Canada.

But M1 new brew must have something in it causing those high cP's.

What a difference.

Jeff

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
One thing I will admit is Amsoil cP for their 5w40 full saps oil which I would call Mobil 1's 0w40 competitor is WAY better. cP of 5400 vs Mobil 1's 31000 that is huge!

Everything else seems to bea wash between the 2.

Would this be a good reason to switch to Amsoil? Maybe if you live in Canada.

But Mobil 1 new brew must have something in it causing those high cP's.

What a difference.

Jeff


You aren't comparing the same thing

You are looking at CCS viscosity, which is measured at -30C for a 5w-XX oil.

Mobil does not provide us with a CCS viscosity for Mobil 1 0w-40. However, because it is a 0w-XX oil, its CCS viscosity must be less than 6,200cP @ -35C.

The number you are looking at for Mobil 1 0w-40 is MRV, which is measured at -40C. Amsoil does not list an MRV value for their Full-SAPS 5w-40, but the pour point is -39C, which is above where MRV is measured. The limit for a 0w-xx MRV is 60,000cP @ -40C BTW.

Using the halving/doubling rule for 5 degrees here, odds are that the Mobil 1 0w-40 is about half the viscosity at -35C than the AMSOIL 5w-40, which means it is again probably half the viscosity at -30C. Even if Mobil 1 0w-40 was right at the CCS limit (doubtful) for a 0w-xx and was 6,200cP @ -35C, it would be around 3,100cP at -30C, significantly lighter than the 5,433cP of the AMSOIL 5w-40.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
One thing I will admit is Amsoil cP for their 5w40 full saps oil which I would call M1's 0w40 competitor is WAY better. cP of 5400 vs M1's 31000 that is huge!

Amsoil's value of 5,400 is CCS viscosity measured at -30C.
Mobil's value of 31,000 is MRV measured at -40C.

Apples to oranges.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Thank you guys for the clarification
It seems that Mobil 1 0w40 is the euro oil to beat so to speak.

I mean for $25 for 5 qts show me a better euro oil for the money. Odds are you won't.

Plus it carries the manufacturer approvals needed to maintain your warranty. You just can't beat it.


Jeff

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Thank you guys for the clarification
It seems that Mobil 1 0w40 is the euro oil to beat so to speak.

I mean for $25 for 5 qts show me a better euro oil for the money. Odds are you won't.

Plus it carries the manufacturer approvals needed to maintain your warranty. You just can't beat it.


Jeff


Still I hate the way it starts on cold temp. So I am done with it!

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Thank you guys for the clarification
It seems that Mobil 1 0w40 is the euro oil to beat so to speak.

I mean for $25 for 5 qts show me a better euro oil for the money. Odds are you won't.

Plus it carries the manufacturer approvals needed to maintain your warranty. You just can't beat it.


Jeff



In America you are absolutely right. I hate Mobil in general however if I could get Mobil 1 0w-40 for 20 a jug I can guarantee my garage shelves would be lined with it. I don't care how much start up noise comes with the stuff. We all know extra noise doesn't mean extra wear. It means there is less of a dampening effect taking place.
Dollar for dollar the Mobil 1 jugs at Walmart are tough to beat.
When I see jugs at 25 or less for synthetic I buy as much as I can afford,and hide from my girl. Those are dream prices here.
First off we can't even get Mobil 1 0w-40 in jugs and what is available is at least 45 bucks a jug.
I've got enough ultra to last 150000 miles so hopefully I see a sale before I'm out.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

I never realized the price of oil variance throughout the world.

Here I am complaining that M1 went up. I was able to get it 6 months ago for $22.97 for 5 qts now its $24.97. I won't complain any longer.

Jeff

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
I never realized the price of oil variance throughout the world.

Here I am complaining that M1 went up. I was able to get it 6 months ago for $22.97 for 5 qts now its $24.97. I won't complain any longer.

Jeff

I saw M1 in Europe for $15 a bottle!