That's because the range wants to collect the brass and sell it.
Aluminum and steel cased ammo.
- Thread starter pbm
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yup
I've heard the arguments that steel cased ammo damages the backstops, manure.
To be fair, he asked about the down sides of aluminum and steel cased ammo.
Most steel cased ammo also comes with steel coated projectiles. These projectiles have been shown to wear out barrels quicker than copper coated projectiles. So I would say thats a down side worth mentioning.
The cost savings are worth it though. You’ll save enough money using steel cased ammo that you could replace the gun when it wears out and still have money left over in savings.
Can you cite a manufacturer and product? I'm absolutely no expert, but none of the 7.62x39, .380ACP, or 9mm Parabellum with steel cases that I've shot have had steel (or steel coated) projectiles AFAIK.
Almost ALL steel cased ammo is also loaded with steel coated projectiles. This is common knowledge. The projectile might then be coated with a brass or copper coating, but it’s still steel clad bullets loaded in steel cases. Wolf, Tula, Barnaul, most of the others are all loaded this way.
I would hazard a guess that you were probably mistaken and the 7.62x39, .380, and 9mm steel cased ammo you shot before was most likely loaded with steel clad projectiles.
These all look to to have copper jacket or coated bullets. This link shows steel case with steel phosphate polymer coated bullets.
Tula Ammo 223 Rem 55 gr FMJ Steel Case 40/Box
Tula Ammo: 223 Rem 55 gr FMJ Steel Case 40/Box for sale at Sportsman's Outdoor Superstore.
CleanSump
Site Donor 2022
Most of the militaries of the world use copper washed steel cased projectiles. The two biggest sources of military and paramilitary ammo in the world use steel cases (Russia and China).
Militaries don't use stuff that causes them to replace capital investments early.
Militaries don't use stuff that causes them to replace capital investments early.
The test bullet cases that came with my recent Gen 4 G22 are aluminum.
The Gen 4 G17 l bought new in 2016 had the same, an aluminum bullet case.
My Gen 3 G21 had a brass bullet case.
Also, this recent G22 purchase had 2 test bullet cases. My other 2 Glocks only had 1.
The Gen 4 G17 l bought new in 2016 had the same, an aluminum bullet case.
My Gen 3 G21 had a brass bullet case.
Also, this recent G22 purchase had 2 test bullet cases. My other 2 Glocks only had 1.
I've used it and for me the big problem is that it's not reloadable...even if you bother to remove the Berdan primers that most of it has and can manage to find correct replacements, or find some of the rare boxer primed aluminum cased, you still run into the fact that aluminum doesn't handle being worked and resized the way brass does. The one time I reloaded a dozen boxer primed aluminum 38 specials, every single one split on firing.
By contrast, I have brass 38 Special cases that have been reloaded so many times that the nickel plating is worn off of them. They just keep going. Even high pressure straight walled brass are good for an easy 5 loadings.
If you don't reload, sure it may not matter to you. For those of us who do, even paying 30% more for ammo in reloadable cases is worthwhile, and the last time I priced Blazer or Herters aluminum the cost difference was less than that.
CleanSump
Site Donor 2022
CCI has been marketing their aluminum case pistol ammo since 1991.
Worrying about whether or not major manufacturers' aluminum cased ammo is safe or will destroy a pistol isn't even worthy of consideration these days.. The market has spoken, and it is quite safe and certainly doesn't cause any harm.
Worrying about whether or not major manufacturers' aluminum cased ammo is safe or will destroy a pistol isn't even worthy of consideration these days.. The market has spoken, and it is quite safe and certainly doesn't cause any harm.
CleanSump
Site Donor 2022
I haven't fired factory ammo in any of my personal weapons since the 1980s.
I reload dozens of cartridges and never buy factory.
However, reloading the cases isn't the question here. The question is will it cause damage or is it safe to use?
Reloaders are not the target market of cheap aluminum or steel case ammo and should as a whole, be knowledgeable enough to not attempt it.
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These all look to to have copper jacket or coated bullets. This link shows steel case with steel phosphate polymer coated bullets.
Tula Ammo 223 Rem 55 gr FMJ Steel Case 40/Box
Tula Ammo: 223 Rem 55 gr FMJ Steel Case 40/Box for sale at Sportsman's Outdoor Superstore.www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com
View attachment 90245
The Wolf and Tula contain steel in the projectile. There are not many range systems out there that steel is really an issue. Outdoor ranges shooting berm type arrangements don't like steel as many of them pick up spent brass and sell it as 1x used. But there are some systems out there that steel is a detriment. And so is copper to those systems.
In most pistol barrels the increased wear potential of steel in the projectile is something only very high volume shooters may see. I myself have fired over 150k rounds of the steel cased Wolf and Tula in handgun calibers. All the nonsense about broken extractors is not quite true. Sure it does place increased stress on the extractor but net warriors claim it as commonplace. Not quite true.
Where it does present a real issue of wear, is a rifle barrel. Not steel cased but steel in the projectile has shown to wear out an AR barrel sooner than non-steel. Not that there are scientific tests out there but some runs of AR (in 5.56/223) have been done showing it by reputable testers. IIRC LuckGunner did a decent test of this.
For me, any AR that is for SD purposes: If it won't cycle Wolf/Tula it is NOT cleared for SD. AR's in 5.56 for accuracy and AR10's in 308 do not ever get the Wolf/Tula. Those almost exclusively get handloads tailored to them.
As much as I hate the smell and it is dirty, WOlf/Tula has proven more reliable in multiple platforms I own than Win white box. Go figure.
A side note: Biden has ceased Russian ammo imports to the US. Anything you see is either funneled in illegally or "past stock." This was done well before the recent invasion of Ukraine.
Did you mean lead on the receiving end?
Or are we talking about spent brass casings?
This is where confusion kicks in,
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I certainly can be confusing!!
2 Seperate matters. 1 is the steel in the projectile and the other is steel/AL case. I have tangled the 2 in not such a gracious way. Sorry. In this instance, most outdoor ranges have some type of earth berm. Steel no issue. If the berm is made of rubber compounds, manufacturers state no steel, even alloys and no copper. My info is dated as this was years ago when my police department was looking into replacing our old baffle system with a rubber system.
The comment on outdoor ranges is directed at the casings. Recycling brass of a busy range for some ranges has become built in revenue. Kinda like your local town, city, or state has massive $$ built in the budget assuming LE will meet a line item amount of ticket revenue.
An additional matter is lead recycling. There are companies out there that go to ranges and clean them for a moderate price. Moderate price is often associated with the company removing all the lead and recycling it. The company I dealt with had a sweetheart deal with China. All they had to do was take spent lead and secure it in a type of vacuum sealed container and ship it. They did not have to do anything further. An issue for these cleaning companies is steel. It wreaks havoc with their profits as the recycler penalizes for steel in the lead mix.
This is how it was explained to me by the owner of the company we used for years to clean our indoor range.
You mixed the two in the same sentence with no break. - but I knew what you meant......I certainly can be confusing!!
2 Seperate matters. 1 is the steel in the projectile and the other is steel/AL case. I have tangled the 2 in not such a gracious way. Sorry. In this instance, most outdoor ranges have some type of earth berm. Steel no issue. If the berm is made of rubber compounds, manufacturers state no steel, even alloys and no copper. My info is dated as this was years ago when my police department was looking into replacing our old baffle system with a rubber system.
The comment on outdoor ranges is directed at the casings. Recycling brass of a busy range for some ranges has become built in revenue. Kinda like your local town, city, or state has massive $$ built in the budget assuming LE will meet a line item amount of ticket revenue.
An additional matter is lead recycling. There are companies out there that go to ranges and clean them for a moderate price. Moderate price is often associated with the company removing all the lead and recycling it. The company I dealt with had a sweetheart deal with China. All they had to do was take spent lead and secure it in a type of vacuum sealed container and ship it. They did not have to do anything further. An issue for these cleaning companies is steel. It wreaks havoc with their profits as the recycler penalizes for steel in the lead mix.
This is how it was explained to me by the owner of the company we used for years to clean our indoor range.
Your info does sound a little dated but subject to local and experience. It's interesting to me. My more recent experience.
First of all. I like a covered outdoor range that has no controls on ammo type, short of incendiaries during dry season. This basically means:
1) Projectiles of any type - copper, lead, alloys, steel, copper washed, etc
2) Casings of any type, you can keep your casings if you like but clean up when complete (or whenever before done), sweep and pickup and put in mixed drum.
Of course there are variants on this, but you get the drift.
Bullets:
I have been a member of indoor ranges that allow no steel case, no steel projectile of any type, subject to magnet inspection - and I was innocently caught once. Brass cases, lead core projectile - in thin iron plating with a copper wash! Magnet stuck. They got real pissy with me and honestly I was ignorant. I had other ammo with me, but had to take mine to the car. They were concerned about backstop dividers and such, but the whatever side of me wonders how/why these 9mm bullets would be more damaging than say .44Mag pure lead alloy, full boat load, if you follow my logic.
And variants of the above..........
Cases:
Some are brass only as mentioned, and no picking up allowed at all (yikes)
Some are brass and steel, but steel in trash and brass in the brass can
And variants of the above..........
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You mixed the two in the same sentence with no break. - but I knew what you meant......
Your info does sound a little dated but subject to local and experience. It's interesting to me. My more recent experience.
First of all. I like a covered outdoor range that has no controls on ammo type, short of incendiaries during dry season. This basically means:
1) Projectiles of any type - copper, lead, alloys, steel, copper washed, etc
2) Casings of any type, you can keep your casings if you like but clean up when complete (or whenever before done), sweep and pickup and put in mixed drum.
Of course there are variants on this, but you get the drift.
Bullets:
I have been a member of indoor ranges that allow no steel case, no steel projectile of any type, subject to magnet inspection - and I was innocently caught once. Brass cases, lead core projectile - in thin iron plating with a copper wash! Magnet stuck. They got real pissy with me and honestly I was ignorant. I had other ammo with me, but had to take mine to the car. They were concerned about backstop dividers and such, but the whatever side of me wonders how/why these 9mm bullets would be more damaging than say .44Mag pure lead alloy, full boat load, if you follow my logic.
And variants of the above..........
Cases:
Some are brass only as mentioned, and no picking up allowed at all (yikes)
Some are brass and steel, but steel in trash and brass in the brass can
And variants of the above..........
I can't speak to the baffles the ranges you've used can handle but the ones we had in our indoor police department range were rather old! They handled all handgun rounds, 454 to 500 S&W as well as 12GA buckshot. Where we had issues was with continued battering of 12GA slugs.
I'm blessed to belong to a private "hunting" club. I haven't hunted since 2015. For me it is a shooting range. Limited by constitution to 80 members (plus 30-lifetime members; lifetime is after 30 years of regular membership). 2 Rifle ranged, Trap field we do 5-stand on and a decent 12 station sporting clay arrangement in the woods.
No cameras and every member has ownership of the club. Old but really solid commercial kitchen. Member can rent it for the day for $100.00. My son just turned 16 and we are going to have a few of his friends for the day to shoot trap at the club.
Spring is coming here in NY. Still in teens overnight but those 65/75F days are near. On weekdays there is often nobody there. It is so much fun to be there in the trap field (full sun), alone, just you and the crazy orange disks of frustration! Sun beating down on you, beautiful clouds in a blue sky.
We are about done with FLOOD-FREEZE-SNOW-FLOOD-FREEZE-SNOW-WIND-FLOOD-FREEZE-SNOW-SUPER WINDY!!
This is my local range (new to me) I joined last summer. Can't wait until 55+ °F days!!
Welcome to CSC -
Welcome to Custer Sportsmen’s Club. We invite you to join us as a member and enjoy our shooting facilities. Members have range access from 9am until 9pm, or a half hour after sunset, whichever comes first. Office hours are everyday from 9am to 5pm. We have 7 shooting bays on the front line that...
www.custersportsmensclub.com
BISCUT ain't edgeumucated like most of us.You mixed the two in the same sentence with no break. - but I knew what you meant......
Your info does sound a little dated but subject to local and experience. It's interesting to me. My more recent experience.
First of all. I like a covered outdoor range that has no controls on ammo type, short of incendiaries during dry season. This basically means:
1) Projectiles of any type - copper, lead, alloys, steel, copper washed, etc
2) Casings of any type, you can keep your casings if you like but clean up when complete (or whenever before done), sweep and pickup and put in mixed drum.
Of course there are variants on this, but you get the drift.
Bullets:
I have been a member of indoor ranges that allow no steel case, no steel projectile of any type, subject to magnet inspection - and I was innocently caught once. Brass cases, lead core projectile - in thin iron plating with a copper wash! Magnet stuck. They got real pissy with me and honestly I was ignorant. I had other ammo with me, but had to take mine to the car. They were concerned about backstop dividers and such, but the whatever side of me wonders how/why these 9mm bullets would be more damaging than say .44Mag pure lead alloy, full boat load, if you follow my logic.
And variants of the above..........
Cases:
Some are brass only as mentioned, and no picking up allowed at all (yikes)
Some are brass and steel, but steel in trash and brass in the brass can
And variants of the above..........
In my AR's I shoot 99% SCA. I only have a few boxes of TULA 9mm SCA. I think they will corrode before I ever get around to shooting them.
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