Alternator or??

[WyrTwister]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: WyrTwister
Check all the grounds . I have read of people that had to run additional grounds .

Check all your positive connections and cables .

Checking voltages on something not under load , only tells you so much . A very poor connection may show full voltage under no load . Under full load , is when problems occur .

Best of luck ,


Did all this.

I have seen corrosion / broken wired up under the insulation . Difficult to see .

Were it me , I would run a temporary wire from the alternator output , directly to the battery positive . Maybe a # 6 copper wire . Un-spliced in between . And very carefully examine the positive battery clamp and the copper where it attaches . Even if I had to strip back a little insulation where it attaches . ( Re-insulate after the examination . )

Might even do this from the battery negative clamp to a good engine ground at / near the alternator .

You do something like this and it can rule out a lot of places that can go wrong . And is probably faster than puzzling over a lot of what-ifs .

Best of luck to you all , -

 

[StevieC]

WYR,

We clipped a 2 Gauge wire on the back of the alternator and ran direct to the battery and let it run for 20 minutes at 2000 rpm. Same.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: researcher
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Things left to try:

-AC Ripple test with a true RMS multi-meter.
-Thermistor temperature / resistance test on the Battery Temperature Sensor located on the battery that feeds back to the ECU to determine charge rate. (Both hot & cold)
-Voltage sense wire from the Alternator traced back the ECU
-Taking the alternator off and having it tested off the vehicle with proper loading.


definitely sounds like a good plan! It definitely sounds like the alternator, even if it's producing the voltage (when you check it), it doesn't sound like it's producing the correct amps to actually charge it. Sure, it's enough to float charge it, but not enough to deep charge it where that surface charge doesn't dissipate once you turn the alternator/car off.


Thanks

 

[WyrTwister]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
WYR,

We clipped a 2 Gauge wire on the back of the alternator and ran direct to the battery and let it run for 20 minutes at 2000 rpm. Same.

By the same , do you mean you were getting voltage but the battery was not receiving / taking a charge ? How long did you leave the jumper installed ?

As long as the wire was protected from damage / rubbing / chafing , I had in mind for maybe several days / a week .

Have you tried a jumper for the negative ? The negative is just as important as the positive . If you have a defect on the negative , it will mess things up as sure as a defect on the positive .

I suggested # 6 copper , # 2 is even better . Do not know what size is the factory wire attached to the battery positive ?

You may turn out to have a defective alternator ( bad diode , as has been suggested ) . Some times trouble shooting is in baby steps . :-(

Best of luck ,

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Read above... 11.5 volts it not normal for Wet or AGM.

Read above... you've either destroyed your AGM battery, or got a bad one in the first place.

 

[eljefino]

Bad battery or something is hauling it down. Whatever it is will make so much heat you can find it with an IR thermometer the next morning. I'd start at the alternator.

But I think it's the battery.

 

[StevieC]

We took the charging cable off the alternator and the field/sense wires. We used the engine to spin it at 2,000 rpm and it is showing 14.7 volts but only putting out 13 amps out of the alternator with a full field tripped.

When we do the same test on my mom's Journey (2014 but same alternator / engine) it puts out a healthy 80 amps.

The alternator is definitely the culprit. We plugged in the wires until I can get a replacement tomorrow.
(Want a better quality new one than would be available with the parts stores open on Sunday.)

Thanks everyone for your help.

 

[researcher]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
We took the charging cable off the alternator and the field/sense wires. We used the engine to spin it at 2,000 rpm and it is showing 14.7 volts but only putting out 13 amps out of the alternator with a full field tripped.

When we do the same test on my mom's Journey (2014 but same alternator / engine) it puts out a healthy 80 amps.

The alternator is definitely the culprit. We plugged in the wires until I can get a replacement tomorrow.
(Want a better quality new one than would be available with the parts stores open on Sunday.)

Thanks everyone for your help.


yup exactly what I was thinking it was doing, enough to show the voltage, but not enough amps to charge the battery. glad you got it diagnosed! what brand are you thinking of getting? TYC is what I got when my civic alternator began dying, it's been working great 4 years now, no issues. But I just sound like a commercial, lol.

 

[StevieC]

Brand choices are limited because this alternator uses a stupid clutch on the pulley so it's either REMY, Champion, Mitsubishi Electric. (So far that I have found carry them) It has a Mitsubishi Electric on there now and this is the second one that has gone bad in its life so I'm going to investigate other brands and their reliability first.

 

[researcher]

I don't blame you for looking at something other than Mitsubishi, two of them bad, yeah time to go to another brand! I know that the original on my civic was a mitsubishi and I ended up with a couple of undercharged batteries. Seems to be their mantra! Kinda glad I got something different this time, been quite happy with the TYC.

you know I went to rockauto to see what was available for a 15 Dodge Journey, 2.4L, and they're saying that it's 160amps for the total output! wow.. and to only get 13 (shaking my head).

You're right, no TYC for your application, so definitely look at reviews see what's the best, looks like it's all good from here!

 

[StevieC]

Yeah 160 amp because it has all the toys... Dual Climate Control, Big 8" entertainment touch screen etc. etc. etc.

Mitsubishi used to have alternators that lasted the test of time back in the 1990's now they seem like garbage.

Also found Bosch available. Maybe I'll get that one. No experience with Remy but the warranty isn't great so not sure I would go with them.

TYC not available anywhere here looking online.

 

[OVERKILL]

I had great luck with a Bosch reman on the Expedition. It is still going on it as far as I know.

Sucks to get a garbage replacement part. Was the one the dealer in Florida installed new or a reman?

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
I had great luck with a Bosch reman on the Expedition. It is still going on it as far as I know.

Sucks to get a garbage replacement part. Was the one the dealer in Florida installed new or a reman?


It was new. I think it's just a bad design on Mitsu's part. Seems people are [censored] online about them not lasting long and about diode problems.

 

[StevieC]

It's funny because it's rated for 160amps and it's the size of a standard alternator say that is 65-100 amps. Yet the ones that are on big dodge diesels which are 160+ - 200 amps are considerably beefier in size and the windings look thicker gauge copper, so I'm inclined to speculate that these just can't take the heat and may be were a lower amperage designed that they modified.

I don't know... All I know is that I'm done with this one!

 

[StevieC]

Maybe I should do this...

 

[Whipcitywrencher]

Wow is that for real? what the heck is that? I'd like to see that in person...all them belts and pulleys

 

[eljefino]

Check your battery with a real checker while you're at it. Its dropping volts overnight still concerns me.

That alt setup is probably from a "decibel drag race" car stereo competition.

 

[researcher]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Yeah 160 amp because it has all the toys... Dual Climate Control, Big 8" entertainment touch screen etc. etc. etc.

Mitsubishi used to have alternators that lasted the test of time back in the 1990's now they seem like garbage.

Also found Bosch available. Maybe I'll get that one. No experience with Remy but the warranty isn't great so not sure I would go with them.

TYC not available anywhere here looking online.


yeah my civic is a 96, had one of those mitsubishis in there from the 90s.. It was good, initially, until batteries started dying an early death, headlights weren't that bright, radio volume wasn't that loud anymore, etc.. When it finally did die and replaced it with the TYC that's in there now, immediately everything was better, lights, brighter, radio volume much louder.. So yeah I don't think much of mitsu's stuff anymore.

Bosch, that could be something to try. I saw the Remy brand too and wasn't sure about them, if their warranty is iffy, then forget it, I agree with you!!

Does feel good, doesn't it? To be done with this and know how to fix it! I always enjoy the solution part! most of the work is done!

and what the heck? 6 alternators.. Guess that guy needs all those to plug in too many cell phones to charge them up!

ok you do that, I'll watch! lol

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Check your battery with a real checker while you're at it. Its dropping volts overnight still concerns me.

That alt setup is probably from a "decibel drag race" car stereo competition.


It's not dropping volts overnight. It holds the charge it is left with over night.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: researcher

yeah my civic is a 96, had one of those mitsubishis in there from the 90s.. It was good, initially, until batteries started dying an early death, headlights weren't that bright, radio volume wasn't that loud anymore, etc.. When it finally did die and replaced it with the TYC that's in there now, immediately everything was better, lights, brighter, radio volume much louder.. So yeah I don't think much of mitsu's stuff anymore.

Bosch, that could be something to try. I saw the Remy brand too and wasn't sure about them, if their warranty is iffy, then forget it, I agree with you!!

Does feel good, doesn't it? To be done with this and know how to fix it! I always enjoy the solution part! most of the work is done!

and what the heck? 6 alternators.. Guess that guy needs all those to plug in too many cell phones to charge them up!

ok you do that, I'll watch! lol


Drove me nuts because the vehicle is only 2 years old (but out of warranty due to miles) and has already had the alternator replaced once and still shows 14.4 volts despite not putting out the current. Really weird.