Alignment specs, are these okay?

[sasilverbullet]

My son had his car aligned and they said they couldn't get the right front wheel in specs. They said that was fine, even though it was "red".

I think he should make them fix it, or bring it to another Honda dealer.

What say you!

 

[Nick1994]

A car that new should still be under warranty. It needs to be in spec, bushings are probably worn.

 

[mclasser]

Loose / bent part somewhere. A competent tech should check for all that beforehand.

 

[DuckRyder]

I would be more worried about the rear camber.

I would look it over for worn or bent parts, but if none are found and it doesn't pull caster won't cause you any issues.

 

[Johnny2Bad]

As well as what previous replies suggest, what is the condition of the tires?

If the tires are worn, and especially if that wear is not even across the tire, or the same on both sides of an axle, you will never pull the alignment into spec. Ideally you do it immediately after replacing the tires.

If a 4-wheel independent suspension (and therefore a 4-wheel alignment) I always instruct to line up the rear axle to my spec first and then do the front in reference to the rear axle.

 

[sasilverbullet]

Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
As well as what previous replies suggest, what is the condition of the tires?

If the tires are worn, and especially if that wear is not even across the tire, or the same on both sides of an axle, you will never pull the alignment into spec. Ideally you do it immediately after replacing the tires.

If a 4-wheel independent suspension (and therefore a 4-wheel alignment) I always instruct to line up the rear axle to my spec first and then do the front in reference to the rear axle.


Forgot to mention, just put Michelin's on. The old ones were scalloped on the outer edge.

 

[bdcardinal]

Has the vehicle been in an accident? They probably can't get it into alignment because there is little no no available adjustment using factory components. I would first look for worn bushings and bent parts. Replace those as necessary then check alignment again. If it is still out then consider aftermarket adjusters.

 

[mehullica]

What the mileage & is the suspension all stock ?

 

[Danno]

Looks like problems are on right side, front and rear. Wonder if the car was ever curbed.

 

[sasilverbullet]

Mileage is 45000. to my knowledge it has not been in an accident or curbed. My sons a real good driver and I help him maintain and keep the car clean so I think I would have noticed if it was curved.

 

[CapriRacer]

I wonder if the alignment tech didn't adjust things because there wasn't enough adjustment available (or at all!)

And to answer the question: No! That's not acceptable at all! That's why your son is having tire wear issues. It needs to be fixed!

 

[Urshurak776]

Go to another Honda dealership. My parents go to one near New Braunfels that they really like.

 

[stephen9666]

Does this vehicle require a camber adjustment kit to adjust the camber and the tech was too lazy to ask if you wanted it?

How much did you pay for that alignment? I don't think I'd be happy with the front settings.

 

[DuckRyder]

Every Honda factory service manual I have seen says "inspect for damaged parts" if a non adjustable alignment measurement will not come into tolerance, I expect this one is no different. There are of course multiple aftermarket solutions, and it is possible that there is enough movement in the subframes or other suspension components to accomplish a meaningful change.

The thing that worries me about the conversation is that while the "red" camber is out of spec, as long as the car isn't leading it makes not a whit of difference, yet apparently no mention was made about the rear camber which is barely in tolerance and will very likely wear tires.

This whole "in spec" mentality irks me to no end, a good alignment technician knows that a car can be "in spec" and can still be unsatisfactory.

 

[supton]

As a side question, I know there are eccentric bolts for "fixing" camber issues. Wouldn't paying the typical $80-100 for an alignment include those bolts, if required? Or are those considered a "repair" item and thus billed separately?

Regardless: wouldn't an alignment shop "know" about them, and stock them, for this purpose?

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Every Honda factory service manual I have seen says "inspect for damaged parts" if a non adjustable alignment measurement will not come into tolerance, I expect this one is no different. There are of course multiple aftermarket solutions, and it is possible that there is enough movement in the subframes or other suspension components to accomplish a meaningful change.

The thing that worries me about the conversation is that while the "red" camber is out of spec, as long as the car isn't leading it makes not a whit of difference, yet apparently no mention was made about the rear camber which is barely in tolerance and will very likely wear tires.

This whole "in spec" mentality irks me to no end, a good alignment technician knows that a car can be "in spec" and can still be unsatisfactory.


I have no idea why i keep typing "camber" for "caster", the front caster in red isn't a problem if the car isn't leading.

Originally Posted By: supton
As a side question, I know there are eccentric bolts for "fixing" camber issues. Wouldn't paying the typical $80-100 for an alignment include those bolts, if required? Or are those considered a "repair" item and thus billed separately?


Typical 4 wheel alignment prices don't include adding adjusters not present from the factory... doing so can range from trivial to quite involved so it would be hard to generically price it.

Originally Posted By: supton
Regardless: wouldn't an alignment shop "know" about them, and stock them, for this purpose?


For a common vehicle like a civic, typically yes.

 

[sasilverbullet]

We're going to contact the dealer that did the work and either get our money back or have them fix it "in specs". If they can't, there are two other Honda dealers in the area we can take it to.

And to clarify, after a conversation with my son where I described "curbed", he admitted that he at least on two occasions drove over curbs with the right front and right rear tires, so yes, he might have something bent.

 

[UG_Passat]

Originally Posted By: sasilverbullet
We're going to contact the dealer that did the work and either get our money back or have them fix it "in specs". If they can't, there are two other Honda dealers in the area we can take it to.

And to clarify, after a conversation with my son where I described "curbed", he admitted that he at least on two occasions drove over curbs with the right front and right rear tires, so yes, he might have something bent.



If your son curb'd it twice, that is not a defect in the suspension that Honda would warranty it. Parts to repair the suspension would be out of pocket, preferably, your son's pocket.

 

[sasilverbullet]

Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: sasilverbullet
We're going to contact the dealer that did the work and either get our money back or have them fix it "in specs". If they can't, there are two other Honda dealers in the area we can take it to.

And to clarify, after a conversation with my son where I described "curbed", he admitted that he at least on two occasions drove over curbs with the right front and right rear tires, so yes, he might have something bent.



If your son curb'd it twice, that is not a defect in the suspension that Honda would warranty it. Parts to repair the suspension would be out of pocket, preferably, your son's pocket.


+1 yes, HIS pocket!

 

[bdcardinal]

They most likely can't get it back into specs without additional work that is not part of a regular alignment. They should have told you that additional work was required before giving the vehicle back to you as a complete inspection of the suspension is part of doing a proper alignment.