470 Na that is more than conventional Mobil.
***ALERT*** Valvoline's add pack/data sheet change
- Thread starter Drew99GT
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Originally Posted By: SRBowen87
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Probably cost. Valvoline sucks.
and here comes the valvoline fan boys......
Just a little humor there; Valvoline 5w-30 is in both my parents cars, my brothers truck, and Maxlife 10w-30 is resting quietly in my sump.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Probably cost. Valvoline sucks.
and here comes the valvoline fan boys......
Just a little humor there; Valvoline 5w-30 is in both my parents cars, my brothers truck, and Maxlife 10w-30 is resting quietly in my sump.
Valvoline has always been a Lubrizol additive package user. They are using the same advanced package for 5w-20 that is used in durablend. The other multigrades are using a package developed by Lubrizol. Na was added to formulations originally to prevent oxidation in the 5w-20/5w-30 formulations, to meet conditions of the SM spec "over the life of the oil". This was the single most portion of the spec that gave blenders headaches. Once a formulation oxidizes, it loses it's characteristics as a lubricant very quickly...breakdown. Some of the blenders went the route of a Grp III blend to combat oxidation(CP). Others went with advanced additives. I still like the overbased calcium approach. This recipe has consisently shown low wear over the life of the oil. examples: Valvoline DB, Supertech Syn, Kendall syn blend, and the previous revision of GTX. I am sure that once the new Valvoline conventional 5w-20 will be in these ranks once it is analyzed. The key here is "over the life of the oil" Na is one approach to getting an oil to meet spec longer.
Originally Posted By: G-MAN
VI is up a pt for both the SAE 20 and SAE 30.
We need Molakule and Bruce to jump in here and explain what Na is used for as an additive. It's starting to show up more and more. I remember Mobil Clean was the first and only one that had it.
Interesting. I didn't know anyone still made SAE 20 oils. Makes for an interesting comparison to 5W-20.
VI is up a pt for both the SAE 20 and SAE 30.
We need Molakule and Bruce to jump in here and explain what Na is used for as an additive. It's starting to show up more and more. I remember Mobil Clean was the first and only one that had it.
Interesting. I didn't know anyone still made SAE 20 oils. Makes for an interesting comparison to 5W-20.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: SRBowen87
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Probably cost. Valvoline sucks.
and here comes the valvoline fan boys......
Just a little humor there; Valvoline 5w-30 is in both my parents cars, my brothers truck, and Maxlife 10w-30 is resting quietly in my sump.
Pheeewwwww...I was starting to think I was losing a bud!...
Originally Posted By: SRBowen87
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Probably cost. Valvoline sucks.
and here comes the valvoline fan boys......
Just a little humor there; Valvoline 5w-30 is in both my parents cars, my brothers truck, and Maxlife 10w-30 is resting quietly in my sump.
Pheeewwwww...I was starting to think I was losing a bud!...
Originally Posted By: Mannix
Valvoline has always been a Lubrizol additive package user. They are using the same advanced package for 5w-20 that is used in durablend. The other multigrades are using a package developed by Lubrizol. Na was added to formulations originally to prevent oxidation in the 5w-20/5w-30 formulations, to meet conditions of the SM spec "over the life of the oil". This was the single most portion of the spec that gave blenders headaches. Once a formulation oxidizes, it loses it's characteristics as a lubricant very quickly...breakdown. Some of the blenders went the route of a Grp III blend to combat oxidation(CP). Others went with advanced additives. I still like the overbased calcium approach. This recipe has consisently shown low wear over the life of the oil. examples: Valvoline DB, Supertech Syn, Kendall syn blend, and the previous revision of GTX. I am sure that once the new Valvoline conventional 5w-20 will be in these ranks once it is analyzed. The key here is "over the life of the oil" Na is one approach to getting an oil to meet spec longer.
Why would Valvoline use Lubrizol when they own Ashland?
Valvoline has always been a Lubrizol additive package user. They are using the same advanced package for 5w-20 that is used in durablend. The other multigrades are using a package developed by Lubrizol. Na was added to formulations originally to prevent oxidation in the 5w-20/5w-30 formulations, to meet conditions of the SM spec "over the life of the oil". This was the single most portion of the spec that gave blenders headaches. Once a formulation oxidizes, it loses it's characteristics as a lubricant very quickly...breakdown. Some of the blenders went the route of a Grp III blend to combat oxidation(CP). Others went with advanced additives. I still like the overbased calcium approach. This recipe has consisently shown low wear over the life of the oil. examples: Valvoline DB, Supertech Syn, Kendall syn blend, and the previous revision of GTX. I am sure that once the new Valvoline conventional 5w-20 will be in these ranks once it is analyzed. The key here is "over the life of the oil" Na is one approach to getting an oil to meet spec longer.
Why would Valvoline use Lubrizol when they own Ashland?
must be a custom blend none of the current LZ packages have NA that I can see and in fact they go with a "core" add system haveing avalible an ashless AO and FM to boost SL to both SM and GF-4 so that blenders can have 1 Core system and blend SL,SM or GF-4 easily.
bruce
bruce
I'll get the details this week. I can bet that LZ is now offering Na as an ingredient in an newly revised "off the shelf" package. It's probably a "beta" package for progression into more stringent specs. To have such a high level of Na indicates an innovative approach.
Mobil 5000 had sodium-based detergents.
I like the overbased calcium for anti-wear protection. Any oil that uses it has shown stellar wear numbers. Just look at the UOA section under the durablend, the kendalls, and the Supertech synthetic. Also check th next to last revision of GTX which used it. Also the new formulation Valvoline Premium convention 5w-20 is using this strategy, but I doubt there are any UOA's of it yet.
I wouldn't say using sodium is new technology, just an innovative approach to extend oil life, (slowing oxidation primarily). Maybe a better description is "innovative technology". Somebody somewhere thought outside the box, and when the testing was done it showed to be a winner.
I wouldn't say using sodium is new technology, just an innovative approach to extend oil life, (slowing oxidation primarily). Maybe a better description is "innovative technology". Somebody somewhere thought outside the box, and when the testing was done it showed to be a winner.
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Ca over based has been around years and IMHO does not give much if any AW protection at LOW treat leveals BUT does give a good anti rust and TBN boost at low leveals.
see for more info:
http://www.chemtura.com/deployedfiles/st...ateBrochure.pdf
see for more info:
http://www.chemtura.com/deployedfiles/st...ateBrochure.pdf
I cant comment on the brochure Bruce because I am not a fluids engineer, just a technician who runs the UOA's for engineers to decipher the data. I will say though that based on my experience, the motor oils with the overbased calcium compounds have shown a noticable advantage in wear numbers. If you search the UOA's on this forum, from the oils that I mentioned previously, they also show significantly lower wear numbers. The text books may say one thing, but in real world experience, overbased calcium additive systems, although "old school" (1990's), give great performance.
I would agree in that I use it for a TBN and dispersant boost.
But I had bad luck in replaceing other HOT EP additives in metalworking used at >10% it did not live up to the data.
The most common FM which will also reduce wear is the kemester additive on the web site it is a Mono gyceride and will NOT show on a spectro used at .5-1.0 % will reduce WEAR and increase fuel Mileage for the GF-4 Fuel mileage oils this is whay you are most likley seeing since on a spectro not much way to tell if a CA is overbased or neutral.
bruce
But I had bad luck in replaceing other HOT EP additives in metalworking used at >10% it did not live up to the data.
The most common FM which will also reduce wear is the kemester additive on the web site it is a Mono gyceride and will NOT show on a spectro used at .5-1.0 % will reduce WEAR and increase fuel Mileage for the GF-4 Fuel mileage oils this is whay you are most likley seeing since on a spectro not much way to tell if a CA is overbased or neutral.
bruce
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The recipe's from the oil companies as well as from the additive company show 2500ppm of calcium, on this LZ package. I have found on the warranty UOA's performed, this package, shows lowest wear numbers. I dont remember seeing on any of the spec sheets a reference to kemester additives. Do you know how they are expressed?
All this Valvoline good news and the intro. of Amsoil SSO in the same year is hard to take.
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