AI's strain on power markets

[buster]

This is becoming a bigger issue. It was felt here in NJ over the summer.

"A Bloomberg News analysis of wholesale electricity prices for tens of thousands of locations across the country reveals the effects of the AI boom on the power market with unprecedented granularity. Electricity now costs as much as 267% more for a single month than it did five years ago in areas located near significant data center activity." - Bloomberg, Sept 29

 

[IndyIan]

I guess it depends on the system regulator in each area? Here Hydro1 makes the customer pay for the upgrade in service in the grid if you need a lot of power. So a new subdivision pays for how ever many transformers and lines back into the grid that they need to upgrade for the additional load.

 

[Hootbro]

In my area they have built a Amazon data center and have passed on the power infrastructure cost to residential customers with many to include me seeing 25% utility bill increases this year alone.

Politicians and the state regulators have all been bought off over this by these companies.

 

[Nessism1]

Power usage from EV vehicles is increasing electrical demand as well.

 

[Zee09]

Electricity rates here have cranked up over 40% too

 

[alarmguy]

Power usage from EV vehicles is increasing electrical demand as well.

My first thought! AI and maybe one day 50 million (currently 5 million) EVs charging up in a country with almost zero nuclear power plants coming on line. Not happening, consumers should not have to bear this cost except for the people that use it. AI companies and EV owners.

 

[Pew]

There are 3 ~1000 acre data centers being built 30 minutes away from me. Currently our two big utility providers, ComEd and Ameren, are showing 10-15% and 18-22% increase respectively until next summer at the minimum.

What sucks is that we want these things for future jobs, income, and ability to "stay-in-the-game" but we can barely sustain it with our current infrastructure. The lack of infrastructure to support it is....well....ya know.

EDIT: Forgot to add, the township the datacenters are in is increasing the water bill by 20% per year until 100% in 5 years.

 

[buster]

I'm curious who has the best energy policy for NJ. It's something we really need to consider.

 

[K-Man]

Don't forget power consumption for Bitcoin mining. That's a big load on the grid too.

Funny how many new activities just happen to be power hungry at the same time as individuals are being exhorted to help the planet by saving energy.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I absolutely agree that AI, bitcoin mining, and EV's will push the grid past the limit.

However any projection from the website zero hedge has to be vetted. The site was founded by a investment banker that was barred from that industry by FINRA for doing bad things, and the site is generally anti USA in general. They have been predicting the collapse of the USA since at least 2008 I think. Just saying be warry.

 

[Vil_Riker]

We have plenty of excess capacity - the system was designed for industrialized America. Since de-industrialization, the generation capacity has been preserved while the transmission infrastructure has somewhat deteriorated. The "AI boom" is just a thinly veiled excuse to jack up the prices. - everybody is using the AI hype to rip off others.

 

[buster]

I absolutely agree that AI, bitcoin mining, and EV's will push the grid past the limit.

However any projection from the website zero hedge has to be vetted. The site was founded by a investment banker that was barred from that industry by FINRA for doing bad things, and the site is generally anti USA in general. They have been predicting the collapse of the USA since at least 2008 I think. Just saying be warry

True. This was a Bloomberg piece, I think.

 

[bioilcurious]

I was just watching this video this morning. It touches on this a little bit.

 

[SC Maintenance]

We have plenty of excess capacity - the system was designed for industrialized America. Since de-industrialization, the generation capacity has been preserved while the transmission infrastructure has somewhat deteriorated. The "AI boom" is just a thinly veiled excuse to jack up the prices. - everybody is using the AI hype to rip off others.

I do agree the grid is the bigger problem vs production, Industrialized America ran on coal. Its been a long time since we did that. Most of those plants have been closed or converted.

If we want to fire those old coal plants up then for sure we have capacity.

 

[SC Maintenance]

True. This was a Bloomberg piece, I think.

Conceptually yes, we have a electricity issue.

However any chart from zero hedge needs to be confirmed somewhere else.

If your interested in AI energy use (I follow all things energy pretty closely), these two videos are pretty good.

The first estimates the number of data centers in the US or being built - a number that is not really available. They back doored it by tracking large diesel generator installations.

The second talks about AI electricity near term demand - which is very peaky and hence could cause grid instability. Both of these channels are well regarded in the finance world.

 

[Vil_Riker]

Another wrinkle is that companies are converting their in-house data centers to cloud based services. IT talent is getting more difficult to find, and the cybersecurity threats are evolving constantly. So you outsource the hosting to someone who can make sure your data is safer than what you can provide.

 

[Vercingetorix]

It’s not the data centers themselves it’s the duplication of effort. Why does Google need to maintain the same data separately from Amazon, separate from Walmart, when it’s basically the same data?

 

[SC Maintenance]

It’s not the data centers themselves it’s the duplication of effort. Why does Google need to maintain the same data separately from Amazon, separate from Walmart, when it’s basically the same data?

Because there scraping the web for public data - including stuff that is copyright, and then trying to say its there own and charge for it. Grifters doing their thing, with legal system letting them.

I think Deepseek already taught us we only need a fraction of the computing power to do the same thing with better software. These data centers are going to be like all the fiber Lucent and Worldcom put in to the ground in 1998. They will figure out how to do things 1000X more efficiently and not need all of it. Were still just now connecting to some of this "dark fiber" installed 25 years ago. I bet a lot of these datacenters are vacant in a few years.

 

[buster]

Conceptually yes, we have a electricity issue.

However any chart from zero hedge needs to be confirmed somewhere else.

If your interested in AI energy use (I follow all things energy pretty closely), these two videos are pretty good.

The first estimates the number of data centers in the US or being built - a number that is not really available. They back doored it by tracking large diesel generator installations.

The second talks about AI electricity near term demand - which is very peaky and hence could cause grid instability. Both of these channels are well regarded in the finance world.

Thank you, appreciate it. Will take a look.

 

[kschachn]

We have plenty of excess capacity - the system was designed for industrialized America. Since de-industrialization, the generation capacity has been preserved while the transmission infrastructure has somewhat deteriorated. The "AI boom" is just a thinly veiled excuse to jack up the prices. - everybody is using the AI hype to rip off others.

Perhaps you do, wherever you are at. But "we" don't here in Wisconsin, nor do our transmission lines allow for that type of expansion. Microsoft is building two data centers in Southeastern Wisconsin and they are looking at replacing a decommissioned nuclear plant in order to meet the anticipated demand.