Air India Flight AI171 (Boeing 787-8) Crash

[drtyler]

With a more thorough reading of the preliminary report, while the switches were moved to cutoff, they were then moved back to run after about ten seconds, too late for a restoration of power although it appears that there was a relight on at least one side.
One pilot asks the other why he placed the switches in cutoff and he replies that he hadn't, which would seem to imply that there was no intent but only a catastrophic error.

If the pilot placed the switches in cutoff with malicious or suicidal intent, would he have admitted to doing so?

 

[ammolab]

One “expert” on BBC said the “system” could have moved those mechanical switches to off. I find that very unlikely that those were servo operated cut off switches.

 

[WobblyElvis]

My guess. The engines failed early but past the point where they had to take off. The RAT deploys automatically with a dual engine failure. The procedure for engine restart involves shutting off the fuel to reset the engines. This was done with both fuel levers. Then either they got caught up in the moment and just tried to fly the plane or the engines did not want to restart due to the fault that shut them down to begin with and they again tried to restart the engines by resetting the fuel levers one more time. To late. I have not read any of the report.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

I have to admit my ignorance didn't realize it was as easy to turn off a 787 engine as it is to turn off the engine in my car. I figured it was some 15 second sequence to shut the engines down.

 

[I<3oil]

I have to admit my ignorance didn't realize it was as easy to turn off a 787 engine as it is to turn off the engine in my car. I figured it was some 15 second sequence to shut the engines down.

Cutting fuel will do that

 

[AZjeff]

Juan Brown just posted this video on the prelim report:

 

[fdcg27]

Meh, at this point ole Juan knows as much as you or I.
Clickbait.
We can all read the preliminary report

 

[MolaKule]

At this point i would say a thorough Human Factors assessment is needed.

 

[MaximumMini]

Shiff happens.

 

[AZjeff]

Meh, at this point ole Juan knows as much as you or I.
Clickbait.
We can all read the preliminary report

We can read it but can we understand what it says? JB's explanations of these events are understandable to non-aviation people.

 

[GON]

We can read it but can we understand what it says? JB's explanations of these events are understandable to non-aviation people.

I found the video very informative. Discussing the way the switches operate, different hand positions of the pilots during takeoff. The advisory on the switches, non identifying of the pilot who reported the switches off and the other pilot’s response, the the switches reported to be turned back on prior to the crash, and the automatic attempt to restart the engines.

The video was good, well done and worth the 15 minutes.

 

[DirectRejection]

AI Slop. Would be a great username.

 

[4WD]

We can read it but can we understand what it says? JB's explanations of these events are understandable to non-aviation people.

Well, we can also go back and read this thread when the final reports have been issued. Juan held back for a while …

 

[edyvw]

At this point i would say a thorough Human Factors assessment is needed.

I am afraid this story is going to get darker than it already is.

 

[Dborch41]

Kudos to the Indian investigators, since what we know thus far makes it a clear case of either malicious intent or a catastrophic cognitive failure.
No effort at a coverup here.

They really couldn't with representatives from Boeing and the NTSB looking over their shoulders the entire time.

 

[4WD]

Kudos to the Indian investigators, since what we know thus far makes it a clear case of either malicious intent or a catastrophic cognitive failure.
No effort at a coverup here.

This is a culture amazingly strong with math and science - when integrity is kept in the forefront by strong leadership …

 

[Astro14]

Some key takeaways from the preliminary report:

• Flaps were set correctly at 5 degrees for takeoff
• Performance was calculated correctly
• The aircraft accelerated and rotated at the proper speed
• It climbed initially
• Both fuel control switches were moved to cutoff three seconds after liftoff
• The gear remained down
• The flaps remained at 5
• The RAT deployed
• One pilot queried the other on why he put the fuel switches in cutoff. He replied that he had not
• A mayday call was issued
• Ten seconds after it was placed in cutoff, no. 1 fuel control switch was placed in run
• Four seconds later, no. 2 was placed in run
• The engines began the auto relight sequence
• There was not enough thrust, as the engines restarted and spooled up, to keep the airplane in the air

The required memory action for a dual engine failure in a 787:

1  FUEL CONTROL switches (both) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . CUTOFF, then RUN
2  RAM AIR TURBINE switch . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Push and hold for 1 second

But, it does not appear that they had experienced any kind of engine failure prior to the fuel control switches being placed in cutoff, so, the selection of cutoff for both engines seconds after liftoff hasn’t been explained.

Further, there was no call for “gear up” a few seconds after liftoff.

We know more than we did, but we are still a long way from knowing what happened and why.

 

[FowVay]

Did you guys see this in the report? It might turn out to not have been human error per se but just plain old bad luck considering neither pilot claims to have disengaged the switches.

quote: "The FAA issued Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin (SAIB) No. NM-18-33 onDecember 17, 2018, regarding the potential disengagement of the fuel control switch locking feature. This SAIB was issued based on reports from operators of Model 737 airplanes that the fuel control switches were installed with the locking feature disengaged. The airworthiness concern was not considered an unsafe condition that would warrant airworthiness directive (AD) by the FAA. The fuel control switch design, including the locking feature, is similar on various Boeing airplane models including part number 4TL837-3D which is fitted in B787-8aircraft VT-ANB. As per the information from Air India, the suggested inspections were not carried out as the SAIB was advisory and not mandatory. The scrutiny of maintenance records revealed that the throttle control module was replaced on VT-ANB in 2019 and 2023. However, the reason for the replacement was not linked to the fuel control switch. There has been no defect reported pertaining to the fuel control switch since 2023 on VT-ANB."

I'm certain that there will soon be a updated inspection requirement for these fuel control switches across the board.

 

[billt460]

This is what I'm having a really difficult time getting past......... Because of the metal guards built around both switches, along with their location, and the added fact the switches themselves must be lifted before they can be moved, it is very hard to absorb that all of this could have been done, "accidently".

I know that is saying a mouthful, but how else could it have accidentally happened? BOTH switches being turned off accidentally, one at a time, then just a few seconds later, being placed back on deliberately. (Again one at a time).

And if such critical switches were in fact "broken" in some fashion, you would think that a preceding flight crew would have noticed it, and said something.

 

[50yr Street Mech]

My theory: Terrorism, or someone in that cockpit, sadly, just " snapped"