Air Cooled Engine Life

[mike1qaz]

Quote:

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They just don't build them like they use to. I love old lawn equipment.

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I agree, I have a 1995 McLane edger with a 3hp Briggs flat head and a 1995 Lawn Boy mower with the Briggs Europa 4 cyle (OHV) and both continue to start and run great year after year. This year after the cool weather passed, I started both on the first or 2nd pull for their intial cuts of the season. I firmly believe the manual chokes on these engines really contribute to their easy starting manners. In contrast, there's a couple of "pump to prime" mowers in the family also that I usually have to work at to get them started at the beginning of the season. Sometimes they're real PITAs.

I don't use synth with these mowers either, just plain 30W most of the time or 15/40 if I have the urge to drain/refill and thats what I have handy. The only extra additive I use is a little Stabil whenever I need to fill the gas can. These 2 older engines are a joy to start and use.

Does anyone know if Briggs' current OHV mower engines are related to my Europa model??? Older Toro's used this engine also.

 

[bar1]

My parents 3.5 hp Briggs powered Partner mower had it's first oil change after 10 years of service (12-14 hours a year). It was only topped off with Shell 30wt mineral.
Changed oil to 5W-30 synthetic 2 years ago and it's still running great.

 

[Cujet]

As I have posted before, My 2 Honda water pumps were run to failure. The first used 10-30 oil as recommended with a short life IMHO. The replacement used 15-50 M1 red cap with much, much better results. But still what I would consider a fairly short life, maybe 1000-1500 hours. In other words, the Florida heat, humidity and abuse probably resulted in early wear out.

What can I conclude? Maybe it was a viscosity issue? Maybe it was a combo of other factors, including the use of synthetic in a hot running air cooled engine.

My answer is this: In my case, using a synthetic higher viscosity oil in a hot running, highly loaded air cooled engine more than doubled engine life. In fact, I would say that the extended lifespan was on the order of 3-4 times.

But You must keep in mind that my situation is likely quite different from the norm.

I have since switched to Kawasaki engines where I can and the results remain to be seen, but so far so good.

Chris

 

[Bill Kapaun]

Cujet- Were these GX or GC engines?

I'd agree your conditions were non typical compared to most small engine use. Yours were working hard continuously.
Do you think for the intended use, the pump manf. should have supplied a next size larger engine?
It'll be interesting to see how the Kaws work out. Are they the same size, or did you go a bit bigger? Are they equipped with oil filters? (Thinking oversize if they are for additional cooling)

 

[Cujet]

These were the pushrod engines. Not sure at the moment what series that is. The industrial version.

I think they ran too hot, too heavily loaded. I am not sure that the Kawasaki engines will be better. but the locals here swear by the Kawasaki's. I even have a worn out Honda air compressor. We are in a drought right now, otherwise we would know by this time about the Kawasaki engines.

For all the talk about how good the Honda engines are, I am not sure they are all that much (if any) longer lived than the best that Briggs has to offer.

Live and learn, but I swear by the M1 red cap. And from what I see with my turbo Miata the silver cap is doing well with the hot oil pressure issue.

Chris

 

[Rico567]

Over 40 years, I have NEVER had an engine failure in either my push mowers or the riders. ALL of these machines were bought used, so I have no way of knowing how well they were maintained.

All of the riders (two Snapper Comets, Briggs 8 and 11 hp, and a Dixon ZTR, a Kohler 16 hp twin) have used Pennzoil HD30 oil. I can't recall all of the push mowers, but they've had a mix of Briggs and Tecumseh engines, and all were replaced for reasons other than engine failure. I used to use the HD30 in the push mowers, too, but in the current one (a Toro) I use QS 10W-40, same as in my Honda FR700 tiller (10W-40 is specified) that has lasted through all of my mowers, still has as much power as when new.

 

[cousincletus]

I have a Lawn-Boy that's starting its 18th mowing season. Just put new wheels and wheelbolts on it and cleaned out the carb (crudded up all over the outside, so I took it off and sprayed it down w/carb cleaner, dropped the bowl and cleaned/inspected the inside). A lot of mowers will nickel and dime you to death or the deck will wear out before you wear out the engine. A L-B alloy deck can last 40 years.

 

[Cujet]

There are plenty of examples of engines run to failure here in S. Florida.

While it is nice to say "Over 40 years, I have NEVER had an engine failure" This only applies to your situation.

Here, where gensets get used for months on end after a hurricane, failures are the norm. Lawn service companies run all day long, 7 days a week. Construction crews run gensets and air compressors constantly. GUESS WHAT, they wear out or fail. There is no other option. You might be surprised at the short life in actual hours.

As I have mentioned, a couple of years ago, Kawasaki engines were "the hot ticket" for lawn service. This is because they lasted somewhat longer.

Put another way, all engines have a lifespan. Aircraft piston engines last about 2000 hours, for example. Sure they generally run just fine right up to the point of overhaul. Still, they are often quite worn out.

I truly believe that good maintenance practices, coupled with a quality synthetic oil will achieve the longest engine life for air cooled eqpt. But I have been wrong before.

Chris

 

[lars11]

do you think that maybe the multi viscosity oils break down in the air cooled engines, leaving you with a 10 or 15 weight oil quite quickly? I don't know but that's what people saying about marine V8s and they have better oil temp management than small engines.
Could it be worth a try to get a single weight synthetic or a straight oil mix like mercruiser 15w40 or 25w50? Try and you may find out something!

 

[Cujet]

Well, this much I do think I know. Even those who used straight 30 in the air cooled generators had shorter engine lives, or outright failures. Those who used thicker synthetics had fewer problems.

My local repair shop is still full of used gensets with worn out engines.

In my case 2 days between oil changes with red cap was the answer.

Chris

 

[Bill Kapaun]

"Could it be worth a try to get a single weight synthetic or a straight oil mix like mercruiser 15w40 or 25w50?"

What's a "straight oil mix like the Mercruiser mentioned?

For Cujet's use, the engine is worked HARD for hours on end.
A multi-weight really isn't needed since the engine is always hot after the initial start up. However, your typical store isn't going to carry a straight weight synthetic.
THEN- A straight weight synthetic is by it's nature a multi-weight oil since it Viscosity Index is so high.

http://www.redlineoil.com/products_motoroil.asp?categoryID=2

A 20W-60 sounds a bit intriguing

 

[Craig in Canada]

I've been running Mobil1 10W30 in my Hondas (GC160 on power washer, GXV160 on Honda mower) as that's what's recommended. I was entertaining some sort of HDEO this summer but have instead opted to try Amsoil ASE SAE30/10W30 4 stroke small engine oil for the first time in the GXV. I've just put some leftover XD-3 15W40 HDEO in the GC160. Not sure what to expect. No consumption issues etc... I use GC 0W30 in the Tecumseh 8hp on the 1986 Toro snowthrower.

 

[SLM]

Unless your a contractor who really uses equipment I can't see the point in running a synthetic in a small engine. To me its like burning money. For most of us running a cheap dino will give many years of service. If I'm running a syn in a mower it better start pushing itself!

 

[javacontour]

I can see it for a generator set that you will run 10+ hours/day.

You could go through 500 hours in a matter of three weeks if you had to power your home 24x7 during a significant power outage.

 

[Cujet]

BTW, gensets here ran 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. With shutdowns for oil changes. Same with the water pumps. Some gensets made it a whole week Most were showing signs of trouble by the end of the month. Some, like my Robin powered unit held up quite well.

Chris

 

[Bill Kapaun]

I think a lot of the problem is that people purchase the bare minimum genset that's designed for occasional use and try to use it in a "heavy commercial" manner. Their intentions were good, thinking they might only use it a few hours at a time on rare occasion. The unit ends up being used for days and just isn't "up to snuff".

Briggs for example, doesn't recommend their engines be used over 85% of their rated power.
http://www.tewinc.com/pdf/201400.pdf
Add the inefficiencies of the alternator and a lot of units are simply "working their guts out" when producing at maximum rates.

 

[Quest]

+1 to Bill's observation.

Most of these smaller air-cooled engines aren't meant to serve 100% duty continuously w/o shutting down. If you can derate these engines to 80 or 60% duty cycle and go easy on it's use (giving some time to cool/service in between running), they sould last considerably longer.

I'm currently in the process of purchasing one of those Eastern tools's TG1200 portable, 2-cycle genset but I'm still wandering on the points of whether I can take on the extra hassle of operating a 2-cycle engine in continuous cycle of 6 hrs at a time during power outage, or purchase one of those smaller, 1.2KW 4-cycle genset with a small 2.4hb 4-cycle Honda clone engine in it.

I've emailed Eastern Tool RE: parts availability and nobody answered so far.

 

[lars11]

Bill, it's being said that the quicksilver 25w40 is a blend of straight 25weight and a straight 40weight. I don't know this first hand but people seem sure thats the diff to auto oils...

 

[dwendt44]

"quicksilver 25w40 is a blend of straight 25weight and a straight 40weight."

Nope: Merc oil is a blend, but it's part synthetic and part mineral oil. It's weight is determined by the blender(to specs).
Mercury Marine does not recommend, and warns against, a full synthetic in marine applications.
Not sure why.
A 'blend' of 25 and 40 straight weights would give you a straight weight of 32.5 if mixed 50/50.

 

[Bill Kapaun]

"Bill, it's being said that the quicksilver 25w40 is a blend of straight 25weight and a straight 40weight"

There are a lot of things said! 1/2 the lawyers are wrong, aren't they?
I'm certainly not an expert on oil chemistry, but it's my understanding that if you mix 2 different straight weight oils together, you end up with something in between. That "something in between" isn't necessarily 1/2 way in between either.
If that wasn't the case, wouldn't you have "globs" of 25 mixed with "globs" of 40? Or a "glob" of one laying on top of the other in the crankcase because of slightly different specific gravities?
You can't have it both ways.
Maybe "globs" would be good? A