After 7 years, the 300M is no more.
- Thread starter G-MAN
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Congrats bud, that is one heck of a car!! It is HUGE. I have a friend with one too and I have driven it plenty a times and its the only car where I didn't have to push the seat all the way back. A beast of a car for sure.
Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Here is some more info on the W5A580 transmission:
The W5A580 debuted in 1995 Mercedes-Benz passenger vehicles and is known to be one of the smoothest, most fuel-efficient and cost-effective transmissions in the industry. Its unique three-channel torque converter helps provide an exceptionally smooth ride and shifting, while reducing fuel consumption. A $455 million upgrade project at the Indiana Transmission Plant was started in 2001 and completed in 2003. The 600,000 SF plant was designed to produce around 400,000 of the W5A580 transmissions per year for the North American market. The transmission project was the first joint effort between the company's American and German wings after the Chrysler Corp. and Daimler-Benz merge in 1998.
A broad ratio spread from First to the Fifth was selected to minimize fuel consumption and reduce powertrain noise during cruising. An aggressive First-gear ratio provides excellent launch performance, and evenly spaced gear ratios provide smooth acceleration through the gears.
World-class efficiency is achieved through physical and electronic means. This transmission uses bearings to reduce friction in many locations where other transmissions may utilize bushings. The transmission also uses a unique scavenging system that removes oil spun off of the rotating parts by centrifugal force through strategically placed slots in the outside of the case. This saves energy that would be consumed by internal parts rotating in oil. Lubricating holes in the clutches are also positioned to promote quick passage of the transmission fluid through the discs, minimizing viscous losses due to trapped oil.
The shift schedule adapts to individual driving style, driving situation and road conditions, altering shift points based on an accelerator pedal usage, brake usage, lateral acceleration, altitude and load on the car as a result of grades. Electronically controlled engine torque management provides quick wide-open-throttle up shifts and quick two-step (4-2 or 3-1) kick-down shifts that are exceptionally smooth.
Transmission ratios:
Gear W5A580
1st .........3.59
2nd ........2.19
3rd......... 1.41
4th...........1.00
5th .........0.83
Reverse ..3.16
Fully adaptive electronic control of all shifting makes shifts very smooth. The system monitors the transmission as shifts occur and adjusts hydraulic pressure as needed. In so doing, the controls make the powertrain feel responsive without harshness.
Driver recognition software alters shift points based on accelerator pedal usage, brake usage and lateral acceleration. This does not require a compromise between sporty and economical operation, nor is it a question of choosing one or the other.
A torque management system uses engine torque modeling to facilitate smooth transmission shifting. Because of electronic throttle control, torque management is more sophisticated and covers a broad torque range. Torque converter clutch slippage is electronically modulated and provides for partial engagement in Third, Fourth or Fifth gears. This results in improved shift feel, fuel economy, driveability and cooling. It can be used at lower speeds to provide benefits over a broad speed range. The system disengages as required to provide optimal performance.
It would appear the Germans can get something right once and a while.
Here is some more info on the W5A580 transmission:
The W5A580 debuted in 1995 Mercedes-Benz passenger vehicles and is known to be one of the smoothest, most fuel-efficient and cost-effective transmissions in the industry. Its unique three-channel torque converter helps provide an exceptionally smooth ride and shifting, while reducing fuel consumption. A $455 million upgrade project at the Indiana Transmission Plant was started in 2001 and completed in 2003. The 600,000 SF plant was designed to produce around 400,000 of the W5A580 transmissions per year for the North American market. The transmission project was the first joint effort between the company's American and German wings after the Chrysler Corp. and Daimler-Benz merge in 1998.
A broad ratio spread from First to the Fifth was selected to minimize fuel consumption and reduce powertrain noise during cruising. An aggressive First-gear ratio provides excellent launch performance, and evenly spaced gear ratios provide smooth acceleration through the gears.
World-class efficiency is achieved through physical and electronic means. This transmission uses bearings to reduce friction in many locations where other transmissions may utilize bushings. The transmission also uses a unique scavenging system that removes oil spun off of the rotating parts by centrifugal force through strategically placed slots in the outside of the case. This saves energy that would be consumed by internal parts rotating in oil. Lubricating holes in the clutches are also positioned to promote quick passage of the transmission fluid through the discs, minimizing viscous losses due to trapped oil.
The shift schedule adapts to individual driving style, driving situation and road conditions, altering shift points based on an accelerator pedal usage, brake usage, lateral acceleration, altitude and load on the car as a result of grades. Electronically controlled engine torque management provides quick wide-open-throttle up shifts and quick two-step (4-2 or 3-1) kick-down shifts that are exceptionally smooth.
Transmission ratios:
Gear W5A580
1st .........3.59
2nd ........2.19
3rd......... 1.41
4th...........1.00
5th .........0.83
Reverse ..3.16
Fully adaptive electronic control of all shifting makes shifts very smooth. The system monitors the transmission as shifts occur and adjusts hydraulic pressure as needed. In so doing, the controls make the powertrain feel responsive without harshness.
Driver recognition software alters shift points based on accelerator pedal usage, brake usage and lateral acceleration. This does not require a compromise between sporty and economical operation, nor is it a question of choosing one or the other.
A torque management system uses engine torque modeling to facilitate smooth transmission shifting. Because of electronic throttle control, torque management is more sophisticated and covers a broad torque range. Torque converter clutch slippage is electronically modulated and provides for partial engagement in Third, Fourth or Fifth gears. This results in improved shift feel, fuel economy, driveability and cooling. It can be used at lower speeds to provide benefits over a broad speed range. The system disengages as required to provide optimal performance.
It would appear the Germans can get something right once and a while.
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Man those cars are Bad [censored] looking. I love the Gangster look they have... Always liked them in Black with black tinted windows.
Me too...definitely one of the best looking American cars to hit the street in the last 10 years IMO.
Man those cars are Bad [censored] looking. I love the Gangster look they have... Always liked them in Black with black tinted windows.
Me too...definitely one of the best looking American cars to hit the street in the last 10 years IMO.
Yup!
Congrats on the new car!
But I just have to ask, why did you decide to purchase another 300? Did you consider other cars? If not, why?
But I just have to ask, why did you decide to purchase another 300? Did you consider other cars? If not, why?
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Congrats on the new car!
But I just have to ask, why did you decide to purchase another 300? Did you consider other cars? If not, why?
Yes, I drove other cars. I wanted something with at least as much room as my 300M had. Here are the cars I drove and considered:
Mercury Grand Marquis.
Chevrolet Impala LT
Cadillac CTS
Buick Lucerne
I probably could have been happy with the CTS or the Lucerne. But the Mercury and Chevy were no-gos almost from the moment I drove off the lot. Chevy had a cheap, plastic feel to it. Mercury, to be such a large car, had LESS room in it than my 300M. The CTS has a surprising amount of stretch out room, despite being the smallest car I considered. And the Lucerne was absolutely the quietest car I've ever driven. It's like riding around in a tomb. Seats were too narrow and a bit squishy. Room was about the same as my 30M.
But once I drove one of the newer 300s, I knew that's what I had to have. Nothing I drove can compare from the standpoint of drive, ride, and ROOM. Only cars that came close in the perception of "build quality" were the CTS and Lucerne. But even then, these two had cheap looking plastic pieces scattered throughout the interior. Every plastic piece inside the 300 looks more up-scale. And the seats are fabulously comfy--firm but not hard.
The LX based 300s definitely show the influence of Mercedes-Benz, not only from the shared architecture (the seats, suspension, steering, transmission, and switch gear are all basically adapted from Mercedes designs), but from the overall "philosophy" of how a car should be designed. An example: Every typical American car you will get in has an uneven, irregularly shaped floor in the foot area for each passenger and the driver. In the 300 (like a typical Mercedes, or almost any European car) the floor area for the driver and each passenger is FLAT and is almost a perfect rectangular shape.
Next time you have the chance to look inside a newer 300, take a close look and note all the things that make these cars so unlike anything that has been produced by an American carmaker in a long, long time. Kudos to Mercedes for not simply building an American Mercedes, but designing a car that captures the essence of what big American cars used to be, while in so doing utilizing some the best parts and input from the Mercedes parts bin and designers.
Congrats on the new car!
But I just have to ask, why did you decide to purchase another 300? Did you consider other cars? If not, why?
Yes, I drove other cars. I wanted something with at least as much room as my 300M had. Here are the cars I drove and considered:
Mercury Grand Marquis.
Chevrolet Impala LT
Cadillac CTS
Buick Lucerne
I probably could have been happy with the CTS or the Lucerne. But the Mercury and Chevy were no-gos almost from the moment I drove off the lot. Chevy had a cheap, plastic feel to it. Mercury, to be such a large car, had LESS room in it than my 300M. The CTS has a surprising amount of stretch out room, despite being the smallest car I considered. And the Lucerne was absolutely the quietest car I've ever driven. It's like riding around in a tomb. Seats were too narrow and a bit squishy. Room was about the same as my 30M.
But once I drove one of the newer 300s, I knew that's what I had to have. Nothing I drove can compare from the standpoint of drive, ride, and ROOM. Only cars that came close in the perception of "build quality" were the CTS and Lucerne. But even then, these two had cheap looking plastic pieces scattered throughout the interior. Every plastic piece inside the 300 looks more up-scale. And the seats are fabulously comfy--firm but not hard.
The LX based 300s definitely show the influence of Mercedes-Benz, not only from the shared architecture (the seats, suspension, steering, transmission, and switch gear are all basically adapted from Mercedes designs), but from the overall "philosophy" of how a car should be designed. An example: Every typical American car you will get in has an uneven, irregularly shaped floor in the foot area for each passenger and the driver. In the 300 (like a typical Mercedes, or almost any European car) the floor area for the driver and each passenger is FLAT and is almost a perfect rectangular shape.
Next time you have the chance to look inside a newer 300, take a close look and note all the things that make these cars so unlike anything that has been produced by an American carmaker in a long, long time. Kudos to Mercedes for not simply building an American Mercedes, but designing a car that captures the essence of what big American cars used to be, while in so doing utilizing some the best parts and input from the Mercedes parts bin and designers.
Too bad that Mercedes goodness only spilled on the 300, if other cars from Chrysler received some of the treatment the 300 did, Chrysler wouldn't be at the bottom of the shopping list for most Americans.
Yes
A liscensed copy that Dumbler porked Chrysler 500$ per unit for the right to use their "Technology"
that is why they stopped putting them in the LX's behind the 3.5's
It is too bad chrysler couldnt have fit the 545RFE in there and thumbed their nose at the Teutonic [censored]!
They were working with Getrag to develop a new trans but that fell apart with the bankruptcy and when Getrag could not financially meet there end of the bargain. supposedly from inside info they have a new 8 spd under development.
Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Congrats on the new ride!
So, are the Mercedes auto transmissions considered reliable?
Yes. There was a problem with an o-ring leaking in 05 and 06 models, and a TSB was issued, but other than that the NAG1/722.6 is solid.
The Chrysler 42LE 4 speed (what was in my 300M and the only tranny available with the RWD 3.5s in 08 and 09) has turned out to be solid, too. Input and output speed sensors are a known problem, and they went out on mine. I had two new ones in the trunk and it took me about 15 minutes to replace them. That's the only trouble the 42LE ever gave me.
The real issue with the 42LE is it's just simply inefficient at getting the engine's power to the drive wheels. When I first started looking, I wasn't necessarily looking only for a 300 with the 5 speed. But when I drove two basically identical cars, both with the 3.5, but one with the 5 speed and the other with the 4 speed, I was amazed. The 3.5 with the 5 speed feels like you've got 20 more horses under the hood. That's when I started researching and learned that, essentially, if you want a RWD 300 with the 3.5 and the 5 speed, 2007 models (or a late build 06) were it.
Also, keep in mind that while I'm calling the 5 speed a "Mercedes" transmission, it is built by Chrysler in Kokomo, Indiana. It's basically a "licensed copy" of the Mercedes 722.6 transmission.
A liscensed copy that Dumbler porked Chrysler 500$ per unit for the right to use their "Technology"
that is why they stopped putting them in the LX's behind the 3.5's
It is too bad chrysler couldnt have fit the 545RFE in there and thumbed their nose at the Teutonic [censored]!
They were working with Getrag to develop a new trans but that fell apart with the bankruptcy and when Getrag could not financially meet there end of the bargain. supposedly from inside info they have a new 8 spd under development.
Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Congrats on the new ride!
So, are the Mercedes auto transmissions considered reliable?
Yes. There was a problem with an o-ring leaking in 05 and 06 models, and a TSB was issued, but other than that the NAG1/722.6 is solid.
The Chrysler 42LE 4 speed (what was in my 300M and the only tranny available with the RWD 3.5s in 08 and 09) has turned out to be solid, too. Input and output speed sensors are a known problem, and they went out on mine. I had two new ones in the trunk and it took me about 15 minutes to replace them. That's the only trouble the 42LE ever gave me.
The real issue with the 42LE is it's just simply inefficient at getting the engine's power to the drive wheels. When I first started looking, I wasn't necessarily looking only for a 300 with the 5 speed. But when I drove two basically identical cars, both with the 3.5, but one with the 5 speed and the other with the 4 speed, I was amazed. The 3.5 with the 5 speed feels like you've got 20 more horses under the hood. That's when I started researching and learned that, essentially, if you want a RWD 300 with the 3.5 and the 5 speed, 2007 models (or a late build 06) were it.
Also, keep in mind that while I'm calling the 5 speed a "Mercedes" transmission, it is built by Chrysler in Kokomo, Indiana. It's basically a "licensed copy" of the Mercedes 722.6 transmission.
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Originally Posted By: addyguy
G-Man,
Give ANY thought to a Hemi?
Just wonderin'.....
Yes, but most 300C models with the Hemi are loaded with options that I just did not want this time around. In 7 years I probably used the sunroof on my 300M a total of ten times. Every 300C I looked at had a sunroof, so I didn't even bother driving it--because I knew I would be seduced by the Hemi's power.
With the 5 speed tranny the 3.5 is very peppy and all the power I need. And the Touring models have all the accessories that I wanted, though it would be nice to have the heated seats. In the winter that was something I used often on my 300M.
G-Man,
Give ANY thought to a Hemi?
Just wonderin'.....
Yes, but most 300C models with the Hemi are loaded with options that I just did not want this time around. In 7 years I probably used the sunroof on my 300M a total of ten times. Every 300C I looked at had a sunroof, so I didn't even bother driving it--because I knew I would be seduced by the Hemi's power.
With the 5 speed tranny the 3.5 is very peppy and all the power I need. And the Touring models have all the accessories that I wanted, though it would be nice to have the heated seats. In the winter that was something I used often on my 300M.
My in-laws have this car with the 3.5. I've driven it pretty extensively including a round trip from Yuma to San-Diego through the mountains.
It's a nice handling car with enough pep and torque. It gets pretty good fuel economy but gets a little out of its element if pushed hard in the corners.
Overall a very nice car with a nice leather interior and good comfort. It is definitely aimed at the more sedate, mature driver. My biggest and FIL's biggest complaint is visibilty. Big blind spots to the rear. I'm ok with it though. Overall a very nice car and I was impressed.
I also found it really interesting for a modern car to list a 10w-30 as the spec on the oil fill cap!
Congrats G-Man, I think you'll enjoy it.
It's a nice handling car with enough pep and torque. It gets pretty good fuel economy but gets a little out of its element if pushed hard in the corners.
Overall a very nice car with a nice leather interior and good comfort. It is definitely aimed at the more sedate, mature driver. My biggest and FIL's biggest complaint is visibilty. Big blind spots to the rear. I'm ok with it though. Overall a very nice car and I was impressed.
I also found it really interesting for a modern car to list a 10w-30 as the spec on the oil fill cap!
Congrats G-Man, I think you'll enjoy it.
My dad bought a 2007 dodge magnum with the 3.5 and 5 speed auto, i presume its the same tranny as the 300. Anyhow i was super impressed with the power and fuel mileage this heavy car gets. I would never have guessed it was a v6 under the hood after driving this pimp wagon. Its a far cry from the 77 royal monaco he had when we were kids. An old lady in a scooter could out drag that tank.
Very sharp! If you didn't say or I missed it, how many smiles on the clock?
In your opinion are the new ones made as well as what you bought? Definitely a favorite for Mafia Staff Car. Your mom was spot on.
In your opinion are the new ones made as well as what you bought? Definitely a favorite for Mafia Staff Car. Your mom was spot on.
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Very sharp! If you didn't say or I missed it, how many smiles on the clock?
In your opinion are the new ones made as well as what you bought? Definitely a favorite for Mafia Staff Car. Your mom was spot on.
It's got 46,000 miles on it, which is a little high for an 07 model that was originally purchased new in November of 07. But it's been well cared for and these are obviously highway miles. I put it up on ramps yesterday and crawled under it for a good, long look. Looks like a brand new car underneath. No evidence of leaks, no rust, nothing.
I wasn't in the market for a brand new 09 so I didn't drive any. I drove 06, 07, and 08 models and the build quality was the same across the board. They made some changes to the dash on the 08s that I don't like. Where the center section of my dash has a very classy looking carbon fibre applique, for 08 this is just black plastic. And the top of the dash for 08 was changed to this flat, textured look. Definitely a step backwards, IMO.
Very sharp! If you didn't say or I missed it, how many smiles on the clock?
In your opinion are the new ones made as well as what you bought? Definitely a favorite for Mafia Staff Car. Your mom was spot on.
It's got 46,000 miles on it, which is a little high for an 07 model that was originally purchased new in November of 07. But it's been well cared for and these are obviously highway miles. I put it up on ramps yesterday and crawled under it for a good, long look. Looks like a brand new car underneath. No evidence of leaks, no rust, nothing.
I wasn't in the market for a brand new 09 so I didn't drive any. I drove 06, 07, and 08 models and the build quality was the same across the board. They made some changes to the dash on the 08s that I don't like. Where the center section of my dash has a very classy looking carbon fibre applique, for 08 this is just black plastic. And the top of the dash for 08 was changed to this flat, textured look. Definitely a step backwards, IMO.
No doubt you did your homework. Again, very nice and congrats.
One more thing, any warranty left on it?
One more thing, any warranty left on it?
Definiteley looks sharp, congrats.
The steering wheel spoils the look a bit IMO, from the picture it looks a tad big for a sedan, perhaps it was taken from the truck bin?
The steering wheel spoils the look a bit IMO, from the picture it looks a tad big for a sedan, perhaps it was taken from the truck bin?
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Definiteley looks sharp, congrats.
The steering wheel spoils the look a bit IMO, from the picture it looks a tad big for a sedan, perhaps it was taken from the truck bin?
That's the result of the steering system coming from the Mercedes parts bin. Traditionally, Mercedes cars have always had slightly larger than typical steering wheels. The wheel on my 77 240D was larger than this. But I actually like it.
Another thing I forgot to mention: The wheel not only tilts, it telescopes, too. Makes for perfectly adjusting to maximum comfort and functionality. Where I've got it set now I don't have to fiddle with it to get in and out of the car. On my 300M I always had to tilt the wheel up to get out.
Definiteley looks sharp, congrats.
The steering wheel spoils the look a bit IMO, from the picture it looks a tad big for a sedan, perhaps it was taken from the truck bin?
That's the result of the steering system coming from the Mercedes parts bin. Traditionally, Mercedes cars have always had slightly larger than typical steering wheels. The wheel on my 77 240D was larger than this. But I actually like it.
Another thing I forgot to mention: The wheel not only tilts, it telescopes, too. Makes for perfectly adjusting to maximum comfort and functionality. Where I've got it set now I don't have to fiddle with it to get in and out of the car. On my 300M I always had to tilt the wheel up to get out.
I like the dash especially at night. It's one that looks really good all lit up.
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