I have a 1975 Ferrari 308 gt4 3 liter V8 engine with 45,000 miles. I have been using castrol 20/50 and 1 quart of lucas with good results. I am curious as to what you oil experts would advise. My car is pretty important to me and I have thought of using Mobil 1 or redline just haven't had the push to switch? FWIW the Ferrari runs hot and has about 50-90 lbs oil pressure. 10 quarts capacity BTW the factory manual says add moly with each oil change......
Advise for Ferrari V8 engine oil?
- Thread starter robertgarven
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I would run Redline 5w-40. You will not have to add moly.
for goodness sake ditch the lucas crap!
JHZR2
Staff member
5w-40, but run oil analysis to ensure that it IS the correct choice for YOUR usage profile.
JMH
JMH
What results are you considering "good results". Do you have UOA to share?
Seeing how Ferari allows you some leway in selection I would rake advantage of this. heir are many excellent synthetic 5W40 oils on the market!I would try Redline,Penrite,Pentosin,Amsoil,Delvac-1,Motul,Torco,Shell Helix all in 5W40 and see what you see.
If you have been running any additive other then Specialty Formulations SX-UP I would run a treatment of AUto-RX to clean things up and give the engine a fresh start!
If you have been running any additive other then Specialty Formulations SX-UP I would run a treatment of AUto-RX to clean things up and give the engine a fresh start!
Define good results.
I really don't know that much about the Lucas add - but is it a motor honey thickener (yuck)? Or is an MoS2 add? (not great either). I would bag it.
I won't rag on the NEW Castrol 20W-50 (the old stuff was NO GOOD). But if I had a Ferrari - I would use the oils the others have suggested. Amsoil 5W-40 or even Amsoil 15W-40 would be a good choice.
Where do you live in Cali, climatewise?
IMHO, I would not use the 5W40 oils. In 1975 no way Ferrari wanted a 5W anything in that engine. If it were mine, I would use one of the following three oils, Mobil 1 15W50, Amsoil 15W40, or Amsoil 20W50.
In 1975 those motors were not tight like the new ones. Again, just my opinion.
Oh, and what everyone has said about the Lucas product, listen to them.
One more thing,
to BITOG
In 1975 those motors were not tight like the new ones. Again, just my opinion.
Oh, and what everyone has said about the Lucas product, listen to them.
One more thing,
I kind of agree with Johnny. Cold starting likely not an issue with a Ferarri 308 in Kulifornia! If Ferarri recomends moly, then look no further than Redline. 10w-40 or even 10w-30 I'd say; you likely will run much cooler with 10w-30 and oil pressure may turn out to be the same or even higher than 20w-50. Or, you could run 0w-20...
You might also consider Motul 15w-50 if you're after moly:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000311
No Lucas please:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000311
No Lucas please:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm
I need some more data from your guages. What is the startup idle oil pressure? What is the street hot idle oil pressure? What is the street hot oil pressure at 2000 RPMs? What is the street hot oil pressure at 4000 RPMs?
The remaining question is what kind of oil temperatures does this Ferrari run? Sitting in traffic? cruising down the interstate? on a road race track?
I happen to have an F355 and ran a lengthy set of experiments on my car/engine with oil under track conditions in Texas summer heat. I have 42,000 miles on this car, at least 4,000 of which have taken place on road racing tracks.
I take my car to the track (a lot). I tried several xW-50 oils (M1, RL, AmsOil) and would consistently see 285dF oil temperatures. Then Ali Haas prodded me to try some thinner oils. Much to my surprise, using several 5W40 oil (M1, RL, AmsOil) resulted in lower track temperatures (260dF) than the thicker oils. And even the 0W30 oil (RL) had better leaving the track oil temperatures than 15W50 oils. As a side note: the car runs lower oil temperatures on the road with the lighter oils also.
Due to oil consumption issues, I settled on a particular 5W40 as the better choice between thin and thick. However, when you drive hard, the numbers you should be looking for is the HTHS numbers that are (sadly) only available via the manufactures materials data sheets. For street use in a Ferrari that never sees the far side of 250dF a HTHS number of 3.5 cP is adequate* (maybe even a little lower), for track use, you should be looking for an HTHS number of 3.8 cP or above.
There are a couple of 0W30 oils that have HTHS nubmers of 3.8 cP and above, and there are a couple of xW40 oils that fall short in this department. So, you really can't tell based on the xW-y numbering scheme.
Basically, if you never see the far side of 250dF on your oil temperature guage, it is likely that any of the better synthetic {0,5,10}W-30 oils will work just fine and give better startup performance (e.g. faster startup and lower startup wear)--however keep a close eye on oil consumption. Oil consumption drove me back to xW-40 oils.
[*] I suspect that an HTHS number as low as 3.0-3.2 cP would be adequate as long as the oil temperatures never gets above 250dF.
Mitch
Robert,
If you were to take your car to a Ferrari dealer for an oil change and not provide your own oil, they'd put Shell Helix 5W-40 in it. That should tell you something. The oil information in your 30-year-old manual is obsolete. Your car will do just fine on a thinner, synthetic oil. The question then becomes which one. Mitch has provided some very informative and objective data which you can use as a template for your own experimentation.
My own experience with a 328 is in no way as comprehensive as Mitch's, but my car is closer to yours than his in terms of engine development. My car had Helix in it when I bought it last year, and when it came time to change the oil I couldn't find Helix anywhere on this island. I opted for M1 0W-40. I can tell no difference whatsoever in the two oils: the car runs cool and with the same oil pressures. I don't track the car. I would consider trying out Castrol 0W-30 (the famous German Castrol everyone is raving about), but it, too, is not available.
My suggestion would be to move to a synthetic xW-40 and see how the car performs. Based on that performance, you'll know whether to stand pat or continue to experiment.
Cheers, Mark
If you were to take your car to a Ferrari dealer for an oil change and not provide your own oil, they'd put Shell Helix 5W-40 in it. That should tell you something. The oil information in your 30-year-old manual is obsolete. Your car will do just fine on a thinner, synthetic oil. The question then becomes which one. Mitch has provided some very informative and objective data which you can use as a template for your own experimentation.
My own experience with a 328 is in no way as comprehensive as Mitch's, but my car is closer to yours than his in terms of engine development. My car had Helix in it when I bought it last year, and when it came time to change the oil I couldn't find Helix anywhere on this island. I opted for M1 0W-40. I can tell no difference whatsoever in the two oils: the car runs cool and with the same oil pressures. I don't track the car. I would consider trying out Castrol 0W-30 (the famous German Castrol everyone is raving about), but it, too, is not available.
My suggestion would be to move to a synthetic xW-40 and see how the car performs. Based on that performance, you'll know whether to stand pat or continue to experiment.
Cheers, Mark
Times change, oil technology changes....
Because newer oils are stout, I wouldn't worry too much about the weight and whether you have the required moly which can be had by using valvoline synpower oil treatment, SX-UP by Specialtyformulations, Torco MPZ, Molyslip.......
10 quarts capacity, isn't that a lot for a 3.0L motor?
Also, how often do you plan on changing that oil?
How much do you want to spend at every oil change?
Do you want autoparts & department store convenience?
or is boutique mailorder oil not a problem?
You say it runs hot. So, a diesel HDEO or any synthetic, IMO, is a must.
Synthetic autoparts store convenience:
Mobil1 5w40, 10w40, 15w50
Castrol Syntec 0w30, 5w40, 10w40, 5w50
Rotella-T 5w40
Valvoline Synpower 5w40 20w50
Quaker State 5w50
Royal Purple 10w40 15w40 20w50
Havoline 5w40
Valvoline PremiumBlue Extreme 5w40
Delvac1 5w40
Any boutique oil(mail order and specialty shops):
Torco/Amsoil/Redline/Synlube/Schaeffers/LE/Synergyn/Motul/Neo/Silkolene/Elf and the list goes on and on.....
Weight choice is yours to make. But, since you're running 20w50+mud, and the engine hasn't croaked, then just about any synthetic 40wt or 50wt is a better then what you have now.
Because newer oils are stout, I wouldn't worry too much about the weight and whether you have the required moly which can be had by using valvoline synpower oil treatment, SX-UP by Specialtyformulations, Torco MPZ, Molyslip.......
10 quarts capacity, isn't that a lot for a 3.0L motor?
Also, how often do you plan on changing that oil?
How much do you want to spend at every oil change?
Do you want autoparts & department store convenience?
or is boutique mailorder oil not a problem?
You say it runs hot. So, a diesel HDEO or any synthetic, IMO, is a must.
Synthetic autoparts store convenience:
Mobil1 5w40, 10w40, 15w50
Castrol Syntec 0w30, 5w40, 10w40, 5w50
Rotella-T 5w40
Valvoline Synpower 5w40 20w50
Quaker State 5w50
Royal Purple 10w40 15w40 20w50
Havoline 5w40
Valvoline PremiumBlue Extreme 5w40
Delvac1 5w40
Any boutique oil(mail order and specialty shops):
Torco/Amsoil/Redline/Synlube/Schaeffers/LE/Synergyn/Motul/Neo/Silkolene/Elf and the list goes on and on.....
Weight choice is yours to make. But, since you're running 20w50+mud, and the engine hasn't croaked, then just about any synthetic 40wt or 50wt is a better then what you have now.
Redline 0W30? When was this? Redline doesn't have any 0Wxx oils currently.
Thanks,
For all the suggestions, my car is up on stands as I do my yearly maintenance so I cant give all the data you asked for I do know at start up the oil is about 80lbs which is normal. The engine uses 10 qts as it has a stock oil cooler and large sump. The weather here is about 75 all year long with the coldest ever started is maybe 45-50 and the hotteset ever run is 90-95. The engine runs hot as it gains lots of power from its small 3 liter size. Money is no object even though I am not rich as I love this car. I change the oil every 1000 miles or 6 months. I have never had an oil test but will consider it as I am bout to drain my oil.
On another topic the cars I run the car hard and fast and i have been using the lucas stuff 1 qt in my GB and engine for several years. I am not disputing the test here, but must relate my real life experience. I drain my fluids hot and every time both oils come out it comes out clear as a bell. I also check my dipstick each drive and the color has always been very clear with no sign of any milkyness bubles etc. I am confused by the lucas test results posted here. Unless I am running such a small percentage? I am using AGIP ful synth 70-90 LSX in the GB and it holds about 6 liters. Of course this all makes me not want to use it but am wondering why I am getting a different reaction in my car??? BTW the GB has a set of 3 gears exactly like in the lucas display rack that transfer the engine to the trans.
Is there a comprehensive test area showing oil data here comparing dino vs synth including ingedients etc?? There used to be a website with this data. I read the post near the top here but was looking for more data (like I would understand any of it
BTW The manual show AGIP sint 2000 SAE 10-50
I am open to all suggestions but the car has run great for the last 12 years and I am scared to switch, maybe I would consider a blended oil. The redline website was impressive however......
Rob Garven
For all the suggestions, my car is up on stands as I do my yearly maintenance so I cant give all the data you asked for I do know at start up the oil is about 80lbs which is normal. The engine uses 10 qts as it has a stock oil cooler and large sump. The weather here is about 75 all year long with the coldest ever started is maybe 45-50 and the hotteset ever run is 90-95. The engine runs hot as it gains lots of power from its small 3 liter size. Money is no object even though I am not rich as I love this car. I change the oil every 1000 miles or 6 months. I have never had an oil test but will consider it as I am bout to drain my oil.
On another topic the cars I run the car hard and fast and i have been using the lucas stuff 1 qt in my GB and engine for several years. I am not disputing the test here, but must relate my real life experience. I drain my fluids hot and every time both oils come out it comes out clear as a bell. I also check my dipstick each drive and the color has always been very clear with no sign of any milkyness bubles etc. I am confused by the lucas test results posted here. Unless I am running such a small percentage? I am using AGIP ful synth 70-90 LSX in the GB and it holds about 6 liters. Of course this all makes me not want to use it but am wondering why I am getting a different reaction in my car??? BTW the GB has a set of 3 gears exactly like in the lucas display rack that transfer the engine to the trans.
Is there a comprehensive test area showing oil data here comparing dino vs synth including ingedients etc?? There used to be a website with this data. I read the post near the top here but was looking for more data (like I would understand any of it
BTW The manual show AGIP sint 2000 SAE 10-50
I am open to all suggestions but the car has run great for the last 12 years and I am scared to switch, maybe I would consider a blended oil. The redline website was impressive however......
Rob Garven
I guess I should have taken your advice 5 years ago............
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