yep, you're right - my MPG pales in comparison to a hybrid when properly driven (I have neighbors with Civic hybrids & Prii that get worse MPG than me).
My intent is not to come off as a hybrid naysayer, rather, I'm simply giving my
Advice on getting hybrid or good alternatives?
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yep, you're right - my MPG pales in comparison to a hybrid when properly driven (I have neighbors with Civic hybrids & Prii that get worse MPG than me).
My intent is not to come off as a hybrid naysayer, rather, I'm simply giving my
That's true, but of course, an aggressively "improperly" driven Civic is just as susceptible to getting poor mileage as is an improperly driven hybrid, Civic or Prius.
Besides the Prius is fun to drive in rush hour traffic. It's entertaining. Can you say that about a lot of those other small cars? You have to have driven one to know the difference.
Yup, local dealership is selling all of their Package 1 cars for $21k + TTL, a steal if you're interested in one.
My friends Prius never gets more than 48. Check out Consumer Reports, They got 43 highway in an Honda Civic EX. They are no friend of the industry.
Whether or not your friend's result with that Prius is good, bad, or average depends on a lot of things, such as how he drives the car, temperatures, load in the car, etc. On a high speed highway run, I'd be pretty happy with 48. If I were running around town on a low traffic day where I could consistently apply some of the Prius special driving techniques, I'd be less pleased with 48. But let's apply some perspective, what other car that has almsost as much usable space as a Camry or Accord gets you anything close to 48?
I can assure you that if I was driving my Prius in the same manner the CR folks did to generate 43 mpg in that Civic, I'd be above 50 in the Prius.
One of the neat things about the Prius, IMO, is that it serves a wide variety of tastes very well, If you want to just get in and drive, not even thinking of what's going on under the hood, it will still provide a solid mpg reward. On the other hand, for a driver who's willing to apply some techniques (play its game), the car will provide spectacular results.
You have to lean some new habits with the Prius. If you are not willing you will not get the best the car can deliver. Plus you should be careful to ignore all the people that have expert opinions on the Prius but have never driven the car. It's amazing the things I hear about the Prius. Just the other day I was told that I'd be sorry for buying the Prius because the belts in the CVT will wear out and the car will leave me stranded. Also, as the belts wear the mileage will get really bad. With no belts in sight I told him if you pull a guinea pig's tail his eyes will pop out. He didn't get the the no belts or no tail idea. He also said that the batteries in the old models are dropping like flies. He's an expert, that's for sure and the world if full of them.
'04 civic manual owner here. If easy on throtle, 40mpg average.
05 Corolla with 5sp manual here.
90% hwy / 10% City. The overall average is over 42mpg in the last 70k miles. Last 4 tanks have been;
44.21, 45.01, 43.76 and 43.98.
Take care, bill
90% hwy / 10% City. The overall average is over 42mpg in the last 70k miles. Last 4 tanks have been;
44.21, 45.01, 43.76 and 43.98.
Take care, bill
I'm very close to 33 mpg at 73 mph now, in a Subaru that's EPA rated at 27 mpg highway. The alternator mod could give me another 5%, making that 34 1/2. If I add fender skirts front and rear, solid disk wheel covers, and do some careful grille blocking, it should get up to 38 mpg.
If people accepted radical aero styling on all cars, not just hybrids, the money saved would be enormous. That money could be spent on developing even more high tech solutions to the energy problem. Hybrids are a good start, for people that can make good use of them.
If people accepted radical aero styling on all cars, not just hybrids, the money saved would be enormous. That money could be spent on developing even more high tech solutions to the energy problem. Hybrids are a good start, for people that can make good use of them.
I just got a 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid. I'm in the Bay Area, CA, so results here are a bit skewed. I picked up a salvaged title 03 HCH w/ 57K miles for $9,500 (a REALLY good deal, IMO, as clean titled 03's w/ many more miles are going in the $15K range). In a really small sample, but I've been getting ~ 42 MPG. This is impressive to me, as San Francisco city driving is really extreme city driving due to all the hills and the constant stop and go traffic. Just for a comparison, my 00 Camry was getting ~ 22 MPG. I also consider myself pretty easy on the gas.
I read that the Prius/Civic shut the engines off @ a stop light? Are their starters build differently to withstand the rigors of instant startup cycling when the light goes green?
tripleM makes a good point...Despite Toyota's reputation for durability, there seems to be so many more components on a Prius that, when the car is kept for a long time, I'd think could really hit the wallet hard when its time for routine maintenance. At some point, the customer becomes responsible for repairing and maintaining the battery packs and all the hardware that goes with them. If you're planning to keep the car for a long time, you might consider long-term maintenance costs and figure them against the slighly lower MPGs you get with a simpler non-hybrid that doesn't have regenerative braking, on-board generators and all the computers required to manage the systems.
That is my understanding. From http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1410055
Hybrid cars, like the Honda Civic Hybrid try to get the best of both worlds. They have both an electric and a petrol motor.
The electric motor is always used to assist the petrol engine. Honda call this the Integrated Motor Assist or IMA system. Petrol engines are less efficient at low RPM, for example when accelerating from stationary so the electric engine will help out. At 1000 RPM, the electric motor increases torque by 66% compared to the same engine without IMA. If your speed drops below 10 mph, if battery levels are sufficient and engine temperature is high enough, the petrol engine will actually switch off. This usually happens at traffic lights and stop signs. The car is however clever enough not to turn off during stop and go driving. When you eventually move off, the electric motor acts as a starter motor and automatically gets the petrol engine going, and assists it during the initial, fuel guzzling acceleration.
Hybrid cars, like the Honda Civic Hybrid try to get the best of both worlds. They have both an electric and a petrol motor.
The electric motor is always used to assist the petrol engine. Honda call this the Integrated Motor Assist or IMA system. Petrol engines are less efficient at low RPM, for example when accelerating from stationary so the electric engine will help out. At 1000 RPM, the electric motor increases torque by 66% compared to the same engine without IMA. If your speed drops below 10 mph, if battery levels are sufficient and engine temperature is high enough, the petrol engine will actually switch off. This usually happens at traffic lights and stop signs. The car is however clever enough not to turn off during stop and go driving. When you eventually move off, the electric motor acts as a starter motor and automatically gets the petrol engine going, and assists it during the initial, fuel guzzling acceleration.
With the Honda you actually use a key to start the car. It's conventional, starter cranks the engine. After is gets going it does the other automatically. With the Toyota there is no key and starter. You just push a button to turn things on and if it senses it needs the engine it's handled through the computer and trans. to start it. At least that is the way I understand it. Heck I don't know, I just drive it.
Dream onQuote:
screw diesel from Honda. I rather get the hydrogen from them if I was going to wait till '08.
69+ mpg!!
I don't know what you have been smoking but it must be good stuff.
I have an '06 Civic LX (less than a year) with about 7,500 miles on it. Average to date has been 34.4 mpg (every mile and drop of fuel accounted for). This is mostly short (7 mile) trips with only 1 trip out of state. I drive smart, but I do occasionally put my foot in it so someone driving specifically for best mileage should do even a lil' better than me.
I'm not as convinced. With the HSD design, you get certain components that are actually much simpler than they are in a conventional car. The transmission is a biggie. The planetary CVT is amazingly simple compared to a modern, multi-speed auto.
As for all the on-off cycling, at least in the Prius, it's designed to pre-oil itself. MG1, the smaller of the two motor-generators actually spins the gas engine up to just under 1k rpm before the ECU adds spark and fuel. Wear? Check out our typical Toyota used oil analysis. Also, consider that a Prius can never wear out a starter motor -- it doesn't have one, MG1 performs that function. Alternator? Doesn't need one of those, and doesn't have one. So again, while you get some complexity, you get a lot of simplicity.
BTW, I've returned to civilian life and re-opened my practice today. I put about 40 miles on the Prius today running around Pensacola -- and having reset the computer this morning, produced an average of 52 mpg. Every time I walk away from this car, I find myself wearing an involuntary you-know-what-eating grin!!!
I love the lack of starter and alternator - almost any car you keep for a long time will end up needing at least one of those, possibly more.
It is a fascinating car, particularly if you are the kind of driver who is into automotive technology. I am not in the market for a new car, and probably won't be for 5 years or so, but I'll definitely have some interest in one of these, when the time comes. Who knows what all will be available then? I would definitely want the next car in our household to get great gas/electric/diesel/hydrogen/biodiesel/(insert whatever else is available) mileage.
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