Advice needed on establishing 10 gal fish tank

[JTK]

@alarmguy With your once a month 23-30% water change schedule, are you measuring nitrates? I know you've been at this a long time. I have too and like said, I didn't do it so well for a long time. Sustained high nitrates in a freshwater tank (~20ppm or higher) weakens the fish's immune system over time. The ONLY way to reduce nitrate level in the tank is through water changes. Filtration doesn't do it and chemical adds don't do it. I had an old timer describe it to me as high nitrates (in freshwater tanks) as being similar to smoking or being around heavy cigarette smoke. You might have fish tolerate it for years, where others will not.

I totally get it though, this can work for you if you are very lightly stocked, feed sparingly with quality foods (as I mentioned well above) and have live plants in the tank. This typically is not the new fishkeeper.

The other issue with non-regular water changes is, you are going to skew the tank water's total dissolved solids among other things over time. Water evaporates and leaves behind it's mineral content, etc. You continually add more minerals, etc with each top-up. This stacking of mineral content can result in a pH crash which will wipe out the tank. Again, water changes prevent that all from happening.

 

[4WD]

What is that, a reflection?

No - he’s inside cleaning the tank …

 

[alarmguy]

@alarmguy With your once a month 23-30% water change schedule, are you measuring nitrates? I know you've been at this a long time. I have too and like said, I didn't do it so well for a long time. Sustained high nitrates in a freshwater tank (~20ppm or higher) weakens the fish's immune system over time. The ONLY way to reduce nitrate level in the tank is through water changes. Filtration doesn't do it and chemical adds don't do it. I had an old timer describe it to me as high nitrates (in freshwater tanks) as being similar to smoking or being around heavy cigarette smoke. You might have fish tolerate it for years, where others will not.

I totally get it though, this can work for you if you are very lightly stocked, feed sparingly with quality foods (as I mentioned well above) and have live plants in the tank. This typically is not the new fishkeeper.

The other issue with non-regular water changes is, you are going to skew the tank water's total dissolved solids among other things over time. Water evaporates and leaves behind it's mineral content, etc. You continually add more minerals, etc with each top-up. This stacking of mineral content can result in a pH crash which will wipe out the tank. Again, water changes prevent that all from happening.

Ahh... yes. I mentioned the tank runs 30 to maybe 40 PPM and as low as 20 maybe.
When I do water changes I am actually adding indirectly nitrates and at the same time removing them. In this way. The Tap water this time of year here has low levels of nitrites in it. So when adding that fresh water to the tank I am introducing water into the tank that the tank will ultimately reduce to nitrate. However the water taken out has higher levels of nitrate then the low level of nitrite that I am adding that will ultimately turn into nitrate.

Im not a believer in nitrate levels up to 50 PPM being harmful. I do keep it lower than that. We know between that and phosphate = algae. Which you can see it well under control. This tank and decorations have never been cleaned except weekly the glass.

Deep gravel bed in areas void of O2 as I described does help reduce nitrates. Anaerobic bacteria eats up nitrate. I am not saying it's good to have a whole sand bed full of it but some like I have posted about my gravel bed yes.

A monthly water change to me is very regular and more effective. It's very possible the tap water itself isnt much better than the tank and the main purpose is to remove nitrate and replace whatever might be missing. I prefer large water change 30% vs 10 to 20 percent every two weeks. The 30% is more effective and actually changes out more water.
Also when you use dechlorinator on tap water if that water has chloromine in it the dechlorinator breaks up that bond of ammonia to remove the chlorine leaving behind ammonia that you are adding. It is true some of the dechlorinators will temporarily bind up that ammonia but it is still there and once again, we know sooner or later that turns into nitrate again.
Anyway, just explaining what I do, its all good but not concerned about nitrate levels less than 50 harming fish but to repeat Im good 20 to 40.

I keep a covered tank, in the 55 gallon I maybe add one gallon a week of make up (never kept track) and every month 30% of the water is replaced.
Also so many variables in peoples tap waters in any given area. We have very low ph and extremely soft water. Stupid soft really. For a while because of the test kit I was trying to get the alkalinity from almost nothing to something respectable. Baking soda works fine for that but haven't bother anymore as it stays a notch above the very lowest measurable amount.

 

[alarmguy]

IN previous posts I mentioned I kept a marine tank. for 30 years, keep in mind in that 30 years I did move from NY to SC so tank was dismantled for a time. This was my 75 gallon in 2020 random photos until 2022, we moved in 2022. Nothing in this tank was larger than a human thumb when I acquired the soft and hard corals. IN the middle you will see a large brown looking rock. That is a live blue coral. It's called a blue coral because once it is dead it is blue. In front of that large brown live hard coral is a moron clown (Fred) he was with us for well over a decade and all these still alive when I gave it all away. That large brown hard coral in the wild is so strong it can tear a hole in a boat. That too was the size of my thumb when I bought it, as you can see it was spreading to other large rocks in the tank in front of it.
All together between powerhead with sponges, self contained skimmer, Sea Chem hang on filter. The water turn over was 1000 gallons per hour. Roughly off the top of my head. Lighting was 4 - 55 watt High output bulbs. (im happy to have LEDs on the new freshwater tank!)

Feeding

Feeding

 

[SOUNDMAN5000]

This post takes me back to my single apartment days in the 80's, I LOVED the hobby of my fresh water fish tanks. I got into the fresh water plants as much as fish, I did best with lots of plants and small fish like neons. The bigger fish required more work.

In general, I remember the bigger the tank with the least amount of small fish was the ticket but tiny fish like neons I could have 10-20 ! I had a 30 gal tall that worked well on a stand in the corner but my 20 gal was nice too and easer to get to the bottom to clean. A 20 gal was a great size as it will sit on a book shelf or normal furniture.

I did have one of those suction cleaners I would start a siphon and clean the bottom but that was lots of work. After my tank got up and running I had to do little if anything but I think a 20 gal and a few small fish may be better than a 10 gal if you have room for a 20.

 

[alarmguy]

This post takes me back to my single apartment days in the 80's, I LOVED the hobby of my fresh water fish tanks. I got into the fresh water plants as much as fish, I did best with lots of plants and small fish like neons. The bigger fish required more work.

In general, I remember the bigger the tank with the least amount of small fish was the ticket but tiny fish like neons I could have 10-20 ! I had a 30 gal tall that worked well on a stand in the corner but my 20 gal was nice too and easer to get to the bottom to clean. A 20 gal was a great size as it will sit on a book shelf or normal furniture.

I did have one of those suction cleaners I would start a siphon and clean the bottom but that was lots of work. After my tank got up and running I had to do little if anything but I think a 20 gal and a few small fish may be better than a 10 gal if you have room for a 20.

Yes, I have to admit, Im really enjoying back to fresh water. For sure larger tanks are more stable, more so by not over stocking them which is much easier to do on small tanks.
I would be happy if I was the OP with a Betta, and a few other small fish in a 10 gallon tank, I think he mentioned guppies or any small tetra's
Neons are awesome. I was hoping to get some brass (gold) tetras. For them to be truly brass gold color they have to come from the wild. Once very available but sadly now, at least where I live your typical tropical fish store just does not exist anymore. Really sad.
Growing up and much of young adulthood on Long Island, there was a tropical fish store almost in every shopping center. Now it's Petsmart or Petco or online.
There was even a chain of huge stand alone stores on Long Island called Ed's Tropical fish, wall to wall fishtanks or everything imaginable, including plants... no more electronics rule for most.

I think back then my biggest tank was a 20 and my friend had a 29 that I thought was awesome.

 

[JTK]

Ahh... yes. I mentioned the tank runs 30 to maybe 40 PPM and as low as 20 maybe.
When I do water changes I am actually adding indirectly nitrates and at the same time removing them. In this way. The Tap water this time of year here has low levels of nitrites in it...

This is true. Well water can have nitrates in it right out of the tap (yuck). Some city water supplies use chloramine as opposed to chlorine for a disinfectant (again yuck). Chloramine goes in as ammonia, then immediately converts to nitrate when you neutralize it with your standard "de-chlorinator" product. These tanks may have a baseline of 10-20ppm nitrate right out of the gate, but as we know nitrates are only part of the picture. Changing water keeps them as low as possible and should keep all other water parameters consistent. Consistency is key of you're in it for the long haul. For the past ~15yrs or so, I've never done less than a 50% water change in any of my tanks. My two 75s have been unchanged going on 13yrs, with some of the original fish. I too always keep glass tops on my tanks so evaporation is basically non-existent for me.

What makes fishkeeping interesting is you'll see lots of scenarios where " Here's what I do... This is what I've done for years" and "This is what's worked for me". It's all good! Is it best practice for every setup? No way.

By and large, people way more versed in this hobby than I will recommend weekly water changes unless you test regularly and verify (why I recommend the API master test kit) and they will recommend much more water being changed than 10, 20, 30%.

They will also discourage against deep bed substrates where anaerobic pockets can form. Reason being, if you inadvertently stir up one of those pockets, you will likely crash your water parameters and kill your critters quickly. I've kept planted tanks in the past with deeper gravel or sand and like you, I never gravel vac my planted tanks. My large cichlid tank? You bet I gravel vac.

I hope we didn't scare the OP away with all this talk. It seems to happen that way once you get into the nuts and bolts of keeping fish the good way. I've been a moderator/staff member over at (once busy) fish forum for many years. These forums aren't what they used to be now with other platforms taking over. The hobby isn't what it once was too it seems.

 

[alarmguy]

This is true. Well water can have nitrates in it right out of the tap (yuck). Some city water supplies use chloramine as opposed to chlorine for a disinfectant (again yuck). Chloramine goes in as ammonia, then immediately converts to nitrate when you neutralize it with your standard "de-chlorinator" product. These tanks may have a baseline of 10-20ppm nitrate right out of the gate, but as we know nitrates are only part of the picture. Changing water keeps them as low as possible and should keep all other water parameters consistent. Consistency is key of you're in it for the long haul. For the past ~15yrs or so, I've never done less than a 50% water change in any of my tanks. My two 75s have been unchanged going on 13yrs, with some of the original fish. I too always keep glass tops on my tanks so evaporation is basically non-existent for me.

What makes fishkeeping interesting is you'll see lots of scenarios where " Here's what I do... This is what I've done for years" and "This is what's worked for me". It's all good! Is it best practice for every setup? No way.

By and large, people way more versed in this hobby than I will recommend weekly water changes unless you test regularly and verify (why I recommend the API master test kit) and they will recommend much more water being changed than 10, 20, 30%.

They will also discourage against deep bed substrates where anaerobic pockets can form. Reason being, if you inadvertently stir up one of those pockets, you will likely crash your water parameters and kill your critters quickly. I've kept planted tanks in the past with deeper gravel or sand and like you, I never gravel vac my planted tanks. My large cichlid tank? You bet I gravel vac.

I hope we didn't scare the OP away with all this talk. It seems to happen that way once you get into the nuts and bolts of keeping fish the good way. I've been a moderator/staff member over at (once busy) fish forum for many years. These forums aren't what they used to be now with other platforms taking over. The hobby isn't what it once was too it seems.

Yeah, dont want to scare the OP. It's funny as you know, once you get to a routine, you know what works.
I honestly without doubt think people new to the hobby fail because they expect to much to fast before the tank matures, to much food being introduced and to many fish to soon. But even back then, not many fish stores will discourage sales to sell less products and fish.

The OP says ammonia rises, something is wrong there. I suspect overfeeding and over stocking. It's impossible to know unless you are there. No established tank should show measurable ammonia.
Good conversation, enjoyed it, time to get out of here.

 

[dubber09]

@i6pwr
Ok, this is going to be a long post. Aquaariums have been a passion of mine (boy I am going to sound old) since around 1966.
Back then I made a lot of mistakes, after all, I was only around 11 years old. As time went on (yes I am still alive and not a ghost writing this) I read every publication, every book on every subject including lighting and filtration.
To speed up this post. I then got into marine fish and what was new at the time was called a reef tank starting around 1990. SO for other 30 years I have maintained a reef tank with marine fish and hard and soft corals.

New home in 2023 before the move I have a local marine store take everything away, wast possible to move it. I was also looking to return to my roots with all I learned into a 55 gallon fresh water once in the new home. 30+ year of mixing salt for the marine tanks, not getting any younger AND a brand new home with wood flooring I did not want the mess.

EXACTLY one year ago Sept 2023 I set up this tank. I have not lost a fish except one that jumped out of the tank and found on the floor one day and one other that disappeared, it was a small tetra at the time (they have since grown) it is possible an Angel fish ate it. (they have grown quite a bit too)

SO this is what I do, hope this helps. It works every time to the point that for me nowovel 5 decades later, this stuff come so easy I almost get bored because the fish live forever and there is nothing new to buy. My last tank of marine fish some were well over a 10 years old.

Ok, going to post this now and then continue on with what I do. I always fear during a long post losing what I type do to some wonky thing happening in this format.
Below are my current photos. Glass is due to be cleaned. I just wanted to get this posted because I have been meaning to so snapped a quick photo.

Im so excited to be back to fresh water.

View attachment 241927
View attachment 241928
View attachment 241930
View attachment 241933

View attachment 241934

Beauty! Nice setup!
Interesting to see you mixed Amazon and Asian fish in there. I always kept SA fish separately from Asian fish, along with appropriate to the native regions plants. You can keep that submersible heater in horizontal position just above gravel and behind rock or drift wood unless you adjust temp fairly often.

 

[alarmguy]

Beauty! Nice setup!
Interesting to see you mixed Amazon and Asian fish in there. I always kept SA fish separately from Asian fish, along with appropriate to the native regions plants. ...

Yeah, good point, never much thought about it. Just choose what would look good for me.
I was on the fence if one day I might get discus MINUS a great number of fish that I have. I put it on that back burner, not looking to complicate an easy set up that I have right now. Funny because we have one well known Discus breeder here in the Myrtle beach area that I think is known nationally. Never went there, they most ship but do thin they have retail hours, As far as normal stores, none exist here.

 

[dubber09]

I can tell you Amazon fish love black water extract! I used to use Tetra brand, I think they discontinued it for years now. Fish LOVED it, they'd be more active, gain color and be just happy. They'd be much more willing to spawn as well.

 

[spasm3]

In a small tank, don't clean the gravel too often, when you do, don't clean all the gravel. Continue with the 25% water changes.

Make sure not to over feed, that can cause problems.

 

[wpod]

I got my first Aquarium when I was in fifth grade and got rid of my last tank in 2003, Don't get frustrated and remember there is a huge learning experience. Some times the biology takes a long time to happen . Just enjoy the process and learning curve. I had one new tank that never wanted to clear up no matter what I did and probably all my doings made it worst but one day I came home from work and the water cleared up.

 

[alarmguy]

…
Interesting to see you mixed Amazon and Asian fish in there. I always kept SA fish separately from Asian fish, along with appropriate to the native regions plants. …

Hey, it just occurred to me. Sometimes you have to think outside of the box.
There is an Asian right next to me in here in the USA and that’s my wife

 

[i6pwr]

Sorry for the late reply, wow....thank you all for the excellent replies, very informative! I will definitely approach this now with a much broader overview and knowledge base. I would leave the bacteria scrubber alone but replace the filter once a month or so, along with sucking all the brown goodies from the gravel.

Very interesting to learn all these well-established practices from everyone..thank you!

I'll get it going this week then after a while start with a single guppy..then slowly ease into a 2nd fish.