Advice: Just lost 2 engines pre-100k miles

[rrguy]

So allot of good advice

oil anaylis
hour meter
find the manufacture specs on oil hour intervel.
you own or Leasing?

Yeah using millage is not going to be accurate but still those engines should last equal of 5 times that

Operating habits can lengthen or shorten a diesels life. Driving a cold engine like a race car doesn't help diesels life span.

Most pto operated diesels will bump them to high idle. Older Diesels I grew up with, was told better to leave them idle vs on off I still believe that. Now most manufactur recomendations has changed with the newer EPA regs to not letting idle for over 5-15 minutes.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Are they leased trucks?

 

[SatinSilver]

I would have told them to SHRED the bill.

 

[Turk]

What type of oil are these running on??

 

[javacontour]

Keep in mind, the head gasket isn't necessarily and oil related failure. Could be a manufacturing defect or the need for some more cooling system maintenance.

It's possible the thrown rod was an oil related failure. It's really hard to know if there were avoidable with more aggressive maintenance or simply the cost of doing business with the chosen hardware without more details on the actual root cause of failure.

 

[zzyzzx]

You had to rebuild an engine due to a blown head gasket???
Sounds like it might be operator error to me.
Is there more to this?

 

[javacontour]

Yes, the more I think of this, there could be other causes, such as overheating. What about insufficient cooling at idle? Low coolant level?

Did they do any other work such as replace the radiator, etc?

Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
You had to rebuild an engine due to a blown head gasket???
Sounds like it might be operator error to me.
Is there more to this?

 

[shredguy]

Originally Posted By: satinsilver
I would have told them to SHRED the bill.

lmao

Originally Posted By: Miller88
Are they leased trucks?


All owned

Originally Posted By: Turk
What type of oil are these running on??



Conventional Delo

Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
You had to rebuild an engine due to a blown head gasket???
Sounds like it might be operator error to me.
Is there more to this?


I'll find out if there is more to the story. I just know the results. I will get my Ops Manager involved in this thread, he would know more about what happened exactly.

 

[SatinSilver]

Tell the drivers to check all fluid LEVELS before a shift begins. Which is what most taxi companies require.

 

[Donald]

Try some Rotella T6. One of the best and easy to get diesel oils out there.

 

[dnewton3]

Yes - these engines have well over the equivilant of one-million miles on them. I'd say you're not getting cheated by any means.

Let's just make a moderate assumption that the driving wear is roughly equivilant to the stationary PTO wear; we have to start somewhere, as Phishin said.

OCI every 3 months is likely not frequent enough, though. In a month (presuming 40 hour work week) you're putting the equiv of almost 20k miles (just depending on days of week, any overtime, etc). I don't know what the OCI spec if for the engines you have, but they probably call for more frequent OCIs than that. And actually, I suspect those companies that make your trucks actually have "idle equviliant" maintenance schedules, if you ask them.

By far, more than anything else, you need to look into a planned program that take UOAs into account. Your investments are too great to be guessing at an OCI.

Welcome to the site BTW!

 

[abycat]

Delo is a great oil. Ive put thousands of hours on stationary diesels. Also drive engines. Never had a problem. With that being said they are used in the upper rpm scale. Might have to gear them differently so they run at higher rpms.

 

[shDK]

I Work at a scania truck workshop.

No doubt your service schedule is all wrong with that much pto use.

On a scania the enginemanagement has a pto mode. When activating the pto it raises the iddle rpm a bit.making higher oilpressure. And if I remember right also adjust the injector timing to keep up exhaust temp,and coolant temp.

What rpm is it running with the pto on ? Also the engine manufacturer must be able to inform you how many hours that goes on a mile.

 

[jrustles]

Originally Posted By: shredguy
Currently we base it around miles according to the manual. I'm considering changing it to an hours based system, but not sure what number to use in that conversion.



Wow. Do the manuals explicitly specify a mileage based interval for mixed/PTO use??? If they do, how are they not liable? If not, then don't let one's interpretation of the manual ruin your equipment!!

 

[KD0AXS]

At my work, we have a fleet of Internationals and KWs, all 26,000 GVWR. Our mechanics try to change the oil at 10K miles, but they usually end up going to around 12K which ends up being around 400 hours. (Average roughly 30 miles per hour) This is on cheap bulk 15W-40. We've never once had an engine failure, and we run them to around 500K before they're traded in or sold. We don't have a truck in the fleet under 200K.

 

[shredguy]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Yes - these engines have well over the equivilant of one-million miles on them. I'd say you're not getting cheated by any means.

Let's just make a moderate assumption that the driving wear is roughly equivilant to the stationary PTO wear; we have to start somewhere, as Phishin said.

OCI every 3 months is likely not frequent enough, though. In a month (presuming 40 hour work week) you're putting the equiv of almost 20k miles (just depending on days of week, any overtime, etc). I don't know what the OCI spec if for the engines you have, but they probably call for more frequent OCIs than that. And actually, I suspect those companies that make your trucks actually have "idle equviliant" maintenance schedules, if you ask them.

By far, more than anything else, you need to look into a planned program that take UOAs into account. Your investments are too great to be guessing at an OCI.

Welcome to the site BTW!


Yeah, we are diving into the manuals and going to research further. At my old shredding company we would do oil changes every 3 months and the truck engines hit 200k regularly. This was all pre-dpf though, so maybe that has something to do with it.

Thanks for the warm welcome. This site is amazing.

 

[shredguy]

Originally Posted By: KD0AXS
At my work, we have a fleet of Internationals and KWs, all 26,000 GVWR. Our mechanics try to change the oil at 10K miles, but they usually end up going to around 12K which ends up being around 400 hours. (Average roughly 30 miles per hour) This is on cheap bulk 15W-40. We've never once had an engine failure, and we run them to around 500K before they're traded in or sold. We don't have a truck in the fleet under 200K.


That's very impressive.

I'm thinking that the shredding PTO setup must be having a negative effect.

 

[Ramblejam]

Originally Posted By: shredguy
Here are the exact numbers on the engines we just had to rebuild/replace. Maybe it's not as bad as I thought it was.

2010 International 4400 Maxxforce 285hp
113k miles, 8800 truck hours
Threw a rod, full engine replacement.

2011 Freightliner M2
Cummins ISB 240hp
82,199 miles, 7120 truck hours
Blew Head Gasket, full engine rebuild.

Fortunately, both were under Penske Full Maintenance, so they paid for most of it. (Though they tried not too, I had to threaten to sue them to get them to pay for it.)


As you've found out, hours of operation is critical in determining a preventive maintenance plan. Lets take the ISB, for example:

Following mileage: 6 oil changes
Following hours: 15 oil changes

You don't need to utilize anything super-duper special ($$$), just up-to-date regular 15w-40 (Delo, Delvac, Rotella).

Of course, remember that everything else (fuel filter, coolant filter, overhead adjustment, coalescing filter, particulate filter cleaning) is also adjusted accordingly for hours.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: javacontour

It's possible the thrown rod was an oil related failure.


Or its just a Maxxforce being a Maxxforce

Sorry, just couldn't resist. That's not (as far as I know...) one of the Maxxforce problems.

After reading the thread through, I do have to wonder if your PTO operations are loading the engines in an unfavorable RPM range. I'm guessing that the truck is fitted out by a vendor who should have made sure that PTO ops and loads were within the engine manufacturers' recommendations.

 

[Chris142]

Here is my thinking. 10 hrs idling is =to 450 miles run time. This = 27000 miles when you have the oil changed every 3 months. Idling will put fuel in the oil and dilute the oil. My recomendation is to cut your oil change time in 1/2 atleast. Every 6 weeks max and 4 weeks would be better.

That's what I think