Are there any additives that will help to prevent the carbon buildup on DI engines? I don't own one, but they seem to be the wave of the future and carbon buildup on the valves seems to be one of the problem areas. I wouldn't think there is a magical cure, but as a simple preventive maintenance would something like ZMax be of any value?
Additive for Direct Injection Engines
- Thread starter WagonBoss
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BG Products is working on the problem, as well as others I'm sure. Here is their take:
http://www.bgprod.com/blendr/GDI.html
Here is their test mule:
http://www.bgfueltest.com/
http://www.bgprod.com/blendr/GDI.html
Here is their test mule:
http://www.bgfueltest.com/
JHZR2
Staff member
Thing with DI is that PCV routes through the intake but the adds are introduced in the injectors, so they don't make their way around. Even if they survive the combustion process, then they create an HC air pollution issue...
IMHO none at this moment. The deposits formed on the back of intake valves of DI gasoline engines came from PCV part where volatile motor oil fumes get burned(charred) on the hot side of the intake valves.
None of the known OTC additives can resolve this issue at this moment, the way I see it. Anything that claims to "clean" the carbon deposits formed on the back side of DI gasoline engine intake valves deserves serious scrutiny (and serious tests performed by reputable(if not controlled) laboratories of some sort, not just some "word of mouth" with the lack of credibility from avg joes out on the internet, or midnite infomercials of some sort).
Q.\
None of the known OTC additives can resolve this issue at this moment, the way I see it. Anything that claims to "clean" the carbon deposits formed on the back side of DI gasoline engine intake valves deserves serious scrutiny (and serious tests performed by reputable(if not controlled) laboratories of some sort, not just some "word of mouth" with the lack of credibility from avg joes out on the internet, or midnite infomercials of some sort).
Q.\
If i had a di engine i would probably research and make my own catch can between the crankcase and the intake. I think that is the only way Di will have less deposits along with the sn grade oil.
The Audi RS4 guys have been agonizing over this and so far there hasn't been one single thing that miraculously prevents carbon buildup. It looks like running good gas, certain oil types, and periodically using a good fuel system cleaner is all you can do.
In particular, they tend to run the RLI Biosyn since it handles fuel dilution well. VW/Audi sells some cleaning products for the gas but frankly I would just tell you to stick with good ones like Techron Concentrate, Regane, or SI-1.
In particular, they tend to run the RLI Biosyn since it handles fuel dilution well. VW/Audi sells some cleaning products for the gas but frankly I would just tell you to stick with good ones like Techron Concentrate, Regane, or SI-1.
JHZR2
Staff member
Yeah, low volatility oil will be a key, but blowzy will always exist and be part of the picture. Almost need something like the MMO inverse oiler...
+1 jhzr2 BUT, IN ADDITION: THE PROBLEM IS CAUSED BY INTAKE & EXHAUST VALVE OVERLAP AS BMW FOUND OUT/ OPS caps Sorry
This is the official Audi and VW approved method of cleaning your intake manifold..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oet4qWeZuYA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oet4qWeZuYA
Hmm...perhaps an aerosol type product that you would spray in after the air filter? Wouldn't Seafoam sucked in through the PCV or brake booster still work, perhaps not as well, but still contact the backside of the air intake valves?
Here's what the MMO tech guy had to say. There was a question asked about MMO and DI engines. Hopefully technology shifts away from DI engines by the time I'm ready for another new vehicle, because I'd rather not own a vehicle with a DI engine. JMO
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I can tell by your comments and questions, you have considerable knowledge of intake valve deposit issues. We clearly understand the issues and have even seen heavy intake manifold deposits on electronic port fuel injected cars as well. However, what is critical to PFI and GDI is intake valve deposits. High deposits of carbon or “coke like substances,” cause super heating of the intake valve surface until it seizes or cracks. To your point, the GDI intake manifolds are only seeing the unburned hydrocarbons from the EGR and volatile oils from the PCV system, all high carbon containing slower burning residues.
Yes, MMO dripped into the intake manifold through a top end oiler will remove these deposits. It is important not to use more than 3100ppm of MMO for each gallon of fuel that is burned in the combustion chamber (4 oz/10gallons of fuel). We highly recommend the injection point be after the Mass Flow Sensor. MMO’s deposit cleaning chemistry is more effective at higher temperatures (300 degrees+ is not an issue). In high temperatures, it volatilizes and scavenges unburned carbon deposits. It is well known that MMO keeps intake valves clean in engines and should also work in the intake manifold. I hope this answers your questions.
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I can tell by your comments and questions, you have considerable knowledge of intake valve deposit issues. We clearly understand the issues and have even seen heavy intake manifold deposits on electronic port fuel injected cars as well. However, what is critical to PFI and GDI is intake valve deposits. High deposits of carbon or “coke like substances,” cause super heating of the intake valve surface until it seizes or cracks. To your point, the GDI intake manifolds are only seeing the unburned hydrocarbons from the EGR and volatile oils from the PCV system, all high carbon containing slower burning residues.
Yes, MMO dripped into the intake manifold through a top end oiler will remove these deposits. It is important not to use more than 3100ppm of MMO for each gallon of fuel that is burned in the combustion chamber (4 oz/10gallons of fuel). We highly recommend the injection point be after the Mass Flow Sensor. MMO’s deposit cleaning chemistry is more effective at higher temperatures (300 degrees+ is not an issue). In high temperatures, it volatilizes and scavenges unburned carbon deposits. It is well known that MMO keeps intake valves clean in engines and should also work in the intake manifold. I hope this answers your questions.
JHZR2
Staff member
Interesting. The question then is how do I get one in the engine bay of my 135i? Not much space in there...
very nice find. An actual quantity recommendation!
One thing is for sure, you wouldn't need to drip or meter MMO constantly, just do an intake cleaning procedure at every oil change.
One thing is for sure, you wouldn't need to drip or meter MMO constantly, just do an intake cleaning procedure at every oil change.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Interesting. The question then is how do I get one in the engine bay of my 135i? Not much space in there...
That might take some very creative plumbing! LOL. Years ago Marvel did make a small 1 qt Inverse Oiler, there still might be a few floating around on Ebay. Other companies make them, you might have to look at pictures and sizes and become creative in finding a location. Good luck!
Interesting. The question then is how do I get one in the engine bay of my 135i? Not much space in there...
That might take some very creative plumbing! LOL. Years ago Marvel did make a small 1 qt Inverse Oiler, there still might be a few floating around on Ebay. Other companies make them, you might have to look at pictures and sizes and become creative in finding a location. Good luck!
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
very nice find. An actual quantity recommendation!
One thing is for sure, you wouldn't need to drip or meter MMO constantly, just do an intake cleaning procedure at every oil change.
IMO the key solution to the problem is not to allow the carbon deposits to get a strong hold on the valves. Rigging an Inverse Oiler is probably going to work very well, if done early in the engine's life. It seems to me these engines are constantly depositing carbon by poor design. A better design is the only real solution, or a constant attack on the carbon deposits.
very nice find. An actual quantity recommendation!
One thing is for sure, you wouldn't need to drip or meter MMO constantly, just do an intake cleaning procedure at every oil change.
IMO the key solution to the problem is not to allow the carbon deposits to get a strong hold on the valves. Rigging an Inverse Oiler is probably going to work very well, if done early in the engine's life. It seems to me these engines are constantly depositing carbon by poor design. A better design is the only real solution, or a constant attack on the carbon deposits.
Originally Posted By: hate2work
This is the official Audi and VW approved method of cleaning your intake manifold..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oet4qWeZuYA
That's awesome.
This is the official Audi and VW approved method of cleaning your intake manifold..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oet4qWeZuYA
That's awesome.
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