Adding oil too soon
- Thread starter mjoekingz28
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: Garak
My dad had a rule for everyone to never add to the taxis unless it was at least half a litre, and to do so in half litre multiples. . . .
I wonder if the 100mL every 1,200 kms lost from my engine is evaporation. The car has no leaks, and if it were burning it at that rate since I bought it, I'd have thought it would be much worse by now.
I add oil at that point in case it's evaporating, making the remainder thicker — less of a concern in summer.
My dad had a rule for everyone to never add to the taxis unless it was at least half a litre, and to do so in half litre multiples. . . .
I wonder if the 100mL every 1,200 kms lost from my engine is evaporation. The car has no leaks, and if it were burning it at that rate since I bought it, I'd have thought it would be much worse by now.
I add oil at that point in case it's evaporating, making the remainder thicker — less of a concern in summer.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
I suppose it depends upon how you define "almost."
A millimeter, a micron, one molecule?
The dipstick isn't exactly a precision measuring device either and the difference between warm and cold would also be enough to put the level either above or below the mark if it were "almost" there, although BMW does recommend checking the oil cold, before the car is run.
The premise of the OP's thread is that he's seen manuals that state that you should only add oil when it is BELOW the minimum mark, and whether there's some issue in "adding oil too soon"...
I stated that I'e never seen a manual that states to not add it (for any reason) until BELOW the minimum mark...strawman on millimetres and temperature not withstanding.
For e.g. My Colorado
"The level should be at the MAX mark. Add oil if the level is at the MIN mark".
Is not an instruction to not add oil to the engine until the minimim mark is reached, it's telling you that at the min mark you have to add oil to keep it in the operating range...
i.e. maintain a level within the range...just like every piece of equipment fitted with a sightglass or dipstick for the last few hundred years.
I suppose it depends upon how you define "almost."
A millimeter, a micron, one molecule?
The dipstick isn't exactly a precision measuring device either and the difference between warm and cold would also be enough to put the level either above or below the mark if it were "almost" there, although BMW does recommend checking the oil cold, before the car is run.
The premise of the OP's thread is that he's seen manuals that state that you should only add oil when it is BELOW the minimum mark, and whether there's some issue in "adding oil too soon"...
I stated that I'e never seen a manual that states to not add it (for any reason) until BELOW the minimum mark...strawman on millimetres and temperature not withstanding.
For e.g. My Colorado
"The level should be at the MAX mark. Add oil if the level is at the MIN mark".
Is not an instruction to not add oil to the engine until the minimim mark is reached, it's telling you that at the min mark you have to add oil to keep it in the operating range...
i.e. maintain a level within the range...just like every piece of equipment fitted with a sightglass or dipstick for the last few hundred years.
Manuals probably say don't add oil (typically in a quart bottle) until the level is at or below the minimum like because that way someone won't add a quart when the level is only 1/2 down and then make it a 1/2 quart over-full. I think they are trying to make it fool proof to some degree, as some people may not know it typically takes a quart to make the level go from Low to Full on the dipstick.
LOL, my gap year was working at a service station.
A guy in a pretty new Mitsubishi Sigma (2.6 litre 4) came over to the oil stand and picked up a 4L bottle of Shell Super SF (20W40), and started walking back to his car.
My thoughts were that it must be oil change weekend, but he opened up the bonnet (hood), and started tipping it in. OK, it's an oil burner I thought.
He emptied the bottle...all 4 litres.
Then went and got another...did the same thing...and another...same thing...and another, which he partially used, and put the balance in the boot (trunk).
Told him that you don't fill these things until you can see the oil, you use the dipstick.
He called me all sorts of names, pointed out that he'd been driving before my conception, and this was how you did it.
Then drove off, in a cloud of blue smoke with an engine that sounded like a dulled jackhammer.
A guy in a pretty new Mitsubishi Sigma (2.6 litre 4) came over to the oil stand and picked up a 4L bottle of Shell Super SF (20W40), and started walking back to his car.
My thoughts were that it must be oil change weekend, but he opened up the bonnet (hood), and started tipping it in. OK, it's an oil burner I thought.
He emptied the bottle...all 4 litres.
Then went and got another...did the same thing...and another...same thing...and another, which he partially used, and put the balance in the boot (trunk).
Told him that you don't fill these things until you can see the oil, you use the dipstick.
He called me all sorts of names, pointed out that he'd been driving before my conception, and this was how you did it.
Then drove off, in a cloud of blue smoke with an engine that sounded like a dulled jackhammer.
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
hahahahaha
Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson
If your old Honda was add weekly it was way past time to get rid of it. I've only had a couple of cars in my life that used much oil. They didn't hang around long!
I had a '68 Chev 307 that, in the last few months before I swapped in a used engine, guzzled a litre of oil about every 75 miles. I presume you would have found this unacceptable.
Of course it fouled plugs quite often. I had two sets, and would swap in the clean ones as soon as it started to run roughly. I could do all eight in about 20 minutes.
If your old Honda was add weekly it was way past time to get rid of it. I've only had a couple of cars in my life that used much oil. They didn't hang around long!
I had a '68 Chev 307 that, in the last few months before I swapped in a used engine, guzzled a litre of oil about every 75 miles. I presume you would have found this unacceptable.
Of course it fouled plugs quite often. I had two sets, and would swap in the clean ones as soon as it started to run roughly. I could do all eight in about 20 minutes.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Keeping the oil level at the full mark when the oil is hot is ideal. I will add oil when the oil level is 1/2 down to the low/add line.
Given the 'semi' dry sump system used on your LS7 (you DO have a C6 Z06, correct?), does the manual state to overfill the tank by a half quart or so, like they do for the fully wet sump LSxes, when open tracking them, or does the factory LS7's oiling system 'over ride'/negate that necessity?
(I know that some owners who do MUCH open tracking convert to very co$tly FULL ON, multi-stage aftermarket dry sump systems on those cars.
)
Keeping the oil level at the full mark when the oil is hot is ideal. I will add oil when the oil level is 1/2 down to the low/add line.
Given the 'semi' dry sump system used on your LS7 (you DO have a C6 Z06, correct?), does the manual state to overfill the tank by a half quart or so, like they do for the fully wet sump LSxes, when open tracking them, or does the factory LS7's oiling system 'over ride'/negate that necessity?
(I know that some owners who do MUCH open tracking convert to very co$tly FULL ON, multi-stage aftermarket dry sump systems on those cars.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Then drove off, in a cloud of blue smoke with an engine that sounded like a dulled jackhammer.
Blue smoke? I'm surprised it was not squirting out of the tail pipe!!
Then drove off, in a cloud of blue smoke with an engine that sounded like a dulled jackhammer.
Blue smoke? I'm surprised it was not squirting out of the tail pipe!!
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Keeping the oil level at the full mark when the oil is hot is ideal. I will add oil when the oil level is 1/2 down to the low/add line.
Given the 'semi' dry sump system used on your LS7 (you DO have a C6 Z06, correct?), does the manual state to overfill the tank by a half quart or so, like they do for the fully wet sump LSxes, when open tracking them, or does the factory LS7's oiling system 'over ride'/negate that necessity?
(I know that some owners who do MUCH open tracking convert to very co$tly FULL ON, multi-stage aftermarket dry sump systems on those cars.
)
Mine is a C5 Z06, no dry sump. And yes, GM does recommend running a quart over full for track use, but also says to drain the extra oil out after the track event. Not sure if the dry sump system needs extra oil for a track event or not.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Keeping the oil level at the full mark when the oil is hot is ideal. I will add oil when the oil level is 1/2 down to the low/add line.
Given the 'semi' dry sump system used on your LS7 (you DO have a C6 Z06, correct?), does the manual state to overfill the tank by a half quart or so, like they do for the fully wet sump LSxes, when open tracking them, or does the factory LS7's oiling system 'over ride'/negate that necessity?
(I know that some owners who do MUCH open tracking convert to very co$tly FULL ON, multi-stage aftermarket dry sump systems on those cars.
Mine is a C5 Z06, no dry sump. And yes, GM does recommend running a quart over full for track use, but also says to drain the extra oil out after the track event. Not sure if the dry sump system needs extra oil for a track event or not.
Semantics...
You could just as well interpret the manual of your Colorado as telling the owner that oil should be added at the min mark and not otherwise.
I have never seen an OM that said that oil should be added when the level is in the allowable range according to the dipstick.
Nobody outside of here is going to add oil a few ounces at a time and most manufacturers understand that and give top-off instructions accordingly.
There's also the fact that many engines burn through that first half quart far more rapidly than they do the second. My old BMW does this, despite the fact that it sees fuel dilution of nearly 3% in 4K miles. This alone would be a good reason to avoid topping up until the low mark is reached.
You could just as well interpret the manual of your Colorado as telling the owner that oil should be added at the min mark and not otherwise.
I have never seen an OM that said that oil should be added when the level is in the allowable range according to the dipstick.
Nobody outside of here is going to add oil a few ounces at a time and most manufacturers understand that and give top-off instructions accordingly.
There's also the fact that many engines burn through that first half quart far more rapidly than they do the second. My old BMW does this, despite the fact that it sees fuel dilution of nearly 3% in 4K miles. This alone would be a good reason to avoid topping up until the low mark is reached.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Semantics...
You could just as well interpret the manual of your Colorado as telling the owner that oil should be added at the min mark and not otherwise.
Don't know how you would interpret it that way when they clearly say should be at the MAX mark.
You need another couple of words, including for example "don not add oil until the Minimum mark is reached" to make your point.
Again, refer to the OP's post and question.
Semantics...
You could just as well interpret the manual of your Colorado as telling the owner that oil should be added at the min mark and not otherwise.
Don't know how you would interpret it that way when they clearly say should be at the MAX mark.
You need another couple of words, including for example "don not add oil until the Minimum mark is reached" to make your point.
Again, refer to the OP's post and question.
Yeah, but it also says add oil at the min mark.
Somewhat contradictory. Which sentence is correct?
I suspect the latter and not the former.
Were the first sentence interpreted literally, then the owner would be expected to add an ounce or two every week, which I doubt was the intent of GM. Were this the case, there'd be no min mark on the dipstick, since there'd be no need for it.
Somewhat contradictory. Which sentence is correct?
I suspect the latter and not the former.
Were the first sentence interpreted literally, then the owner would be expected to add an ounce or two every week, which I doubt was the intent of GM. Were this the case, there'd be no min mark on the dipstick, since there'd be no need for it.
Unless the words "do not add until min level" are included, then the intent is not to not add until that line...It's nonsensical to THINK that they are limiting you to not fill until the minimum line, let alone try to twist the words that way
Dipsticks and sightglasses have been in use for hundreds of years across industry as well as automobiles.
The minimum line is the line at which the unit will still operate safely (for example in gearboxes, the bearings that are not fed, but oiled by the sump volume). This is the "do not run the machine until you add oil" mark. It is not the "only add oil when you hit this line" mark.
The full mark is the post service mark, and it is the point that the problems of too much oil (aeration, seal issues etc.) are avoided.
Operation anywhere in the middle is fine (provided consumption is such that you don't go too low before your next check).
Again, the manufacturers are NOT mandating you not to ad oil until min level.
Dipsticks and sightglasses have been in use for hundreds of years across industry as well as automobiles.
The minimum line is the line at which the unit will still operate safely (for example in gearboxes, the bearings that are not fed, but oiled by the sump volume). This is the "do not run the machine until you add oil" mark. It is not the "only add oil when you hit this line" mark.
The full mark is the post service mark, and it is the point that the problems of too much oil (aeration, seal issues etc.) are avoided.
Operation anywhere in the middle is fine (provided consumption is such that you don't go too low before your next check).
Again, the manufacturers are NOT mandating you not to ad oil until min level.
I don't recall that I ever wrote that anything was mandated.
I rather tried to inject a little common sense into the discussion.
There is a min mark for a reason, since this is the level at which a quart or a liter of oil can be added without overfilling the sump.
Note that there are margins built into this range. The real min level is that below which the oil pickup will suck air, and that is at least another quart or liter below the min mark. The full mark also allows for filling at a somewhat higher level and I often do about a 12% overfill (ie: five quarts in a 4.5 quart sump) with no problems over many years and engines.
Those who are inclined to add oil a few ounces at a time should do so. They are certainly doing no harm, nor are they doing any good.
I rather tried to inject a little common sense into the discussion.
There is a min mark for a reason, since this is the level at which a quart or a liter of oil can be added without overfilling the sump.
Note that there are margins built into this range. The real min level is that below which the oil pickup will suck air, and that is at least another quart or liter below the min mark. The full mark also allows for filling at a somewhat higher level and I often do about a 12% overfill (ie: five quarts in a 4.5 quart sump) with no problems over many years and engines.
Those who are inclined to add oil a few ounces at a time should do so. They are certainly doing no harm, nor are they doing any good.
Originally Posted By: Uphill_Both_Ways
I wonder if the 100mL every 1,200 kms lost from my engine is evaporation. The car has no leaks, and if it were burning it at that rate since I bought it, I'd have thought it would be much worse by now.
One would think it wouldn't be evaporation, but one never knows. Some vehicles, at least in my experience, don't experience a big increase in consumption over many miles, while some do. We had all kinds of perplexing examples during the taxi years, many with the same engine (or family at least).
Shannow: This is Ford's website wording. It's much like their manuals, but a little more verbose, for the obvious reason that it's on the web rather than a printed page.
I wonder if the 100mL every 1,200 kms lost from my engine is evaporation. The car has no leaks, and if it were burning it at that rate since I bought it, I'd have thought it would be much worse by now.
One would think it wouldn't be evaporation, but one never knows. Some vehicles, at least in my experience, don't experience a big increase in consumption over many miles, while some do. We had all kinds of perplexing examples during the taxi years, many with the same engine (or family at least).
Shannow: This is Ford's website wording. It's much like their manuals, but a little more verbose, for the obvious reason that it's on the web rather than a printed page.
Dang, seems keeping the oil level between Low and Full on the dipstick is rocket science.
If the level is at or below the Low mark when checked, then add oil, but don't fill above the Full line. Or if you want, top it off to the Full line any time you want or need to, even if it's not down to the Low mark.
If the level is at or below the Low mark when checked, then add oil, but don't fill above the Full line. Or if you want, top it off to the Full line any time you want or need to, even if it's not down to the Low mark.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Dang, seems keeping the oil level between Low and Full on the dipstick is rocket science.
If the level is at or below the Low mark when checked, then add oil, but don't fill above the Full line. Or if you want, top it off to the Full line any time you want or need to, even if it's not down to the Low mark.
This is definitely one of the most OCD threads I’ve seen here.
Dang, seems keeping the oil level between Low and Full on the dipstick is rocket science.
If the level is at or below the Low mark when checked, then add oil, but don't fill above the Full line. Or if you want, top it off to the Full line any time you want or need to, even if it's not down to the Low mark.
This is definitely one of the most OCD threads I’ve seen here.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Dang, seems keeping the oil level between Low and Full on the dipstick is rocket science.
If the level is at or below the Low mark when checked, then add oil, but don't fill above the Full line. Or if you want, top it off to the Full line any time you want or need to, even if it's not down to the Low mark.
'zackerly
Dang, seems keeping the oil level between Low and Full on the dipstick is rocket science.
If the level is at or below the Low mark when checked, then add oil, but don't fill above the Full line. Or if you want, top it off to the Full line any time you want or need to, even if it's not down to the Low mark.
'zackerly
- Status
Similar threads
