Adding LSD friction modifier to Synchromesh??

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The biggest hangup for me with experimenting with non-synchromesh fluids is that they don't make parts for this transmission. NOS synchronizers that sold for $185 not even 6 months ago are running $850 as stocks run out...and hopefully you don't damage a hard part as they are no longer made. Hopefully the aftermarket steps up and starts to build parts for the NV5600...


As for fluids:

I ran the OE fluid to 50k. It always shifted hard when cold, but was consistant.

Changed to Pennzoil (PZ) Synchromesh for 25k, it was almost identical to the OE fluid in performance...a little better when first filled, but it "wore in" after a little bit.

Decided to try Royal Purple (RP) Synchromax (At 75k total on truck). Changed to RP Synchromax and it was so bad within 500 miles that I dumped it for another fill of RP (all I had on hand).

Dumped that RP within another 500 miles (didn't go bad as quick as the first fill) for Redline (RL) MTL. It was much better than the RP and OE fluid.

Dumped the RL within 1000 miles as a "flush" and added Lucas transmission goo. (At around 78k miles on truck) This was a very nice shifting combination, but for a short while.

Dumped the RL/Lucas for another fill (at around 85k miles on truck). Overfilled by a quart as that was supposedly "better", I saw increased trans temps so I dumped the excess to "full" and things were back to normal.

At 95k (miles on truck), I added FastCoolers and switched to Amsoil MTF (the 5w30 stuff). Amsoil is by far the best performing oil to date, but at 108k, it is starting to decline in shift quality.

Both RL and Amsoil seem to start out really good, but fall off after a short while (around 10k). I would say they are pretty near equal...

As I explained in an early post, I know that LSD additive, LubeGuard, and Lucas have all been used (I am not sure of the oil). Both Lucas and LubeGuard were reported to have had a general, good early on performance that was short lived (under 5k miles).

RP did not give me good results, but I know others have had really good luck running it. Of all the oils, RP was the best shifting oil when I first filled with it, but I would expect to get more than 500 miles on a fill of oil...

I really want to get a used oil analysis on this fluid and see how it compares to the "standard" Amsoil has to see what might be happening in there. There has to be a solution.

steved
 
"The transmission requires Synchromesh fluid, not fluid for a transmission with synchronizers."

This has been a confusing issue for some time.

ANY manual transmission with synchronizers requires a synchromesh-type fluid, which may vary in viscosity from ATF (7.0 cSt) to 75W90 (14.5 cSt).

"Synchromesh" fluid is for the specifications of GM 9985648 (part numbers 12345349 and 12345577) and Chrysler MS9224 (part Number 4874464), a fluid that specs out at 9.X viscosity at 100C.

Pennzoil Synchromesh, Amsoil MTF, and RP Synchromax fluids are direct replacements for the GM "Synchromesh" fluid found at GM dealers.
 
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ANY manual transmission with synchronizers requires a synchromesh-type fluid, which may vary in viscosity from ATF (7.0 cSt) to 75W90 (14.5 cSt).

"Synchromesh" fluid is for the specifications of GM 9985648 (part numbers 12345349 and 12345577) and Chrysler MS9224 (part Number 4874464), a fluid that specs out at 9.X viscosity at 100C.






Not every transmission with synchronizers "requires" synchromesh-type fluids...case in point, I have a fully synchronized NP445 that requires 80w90 weight gear oil, it was built in 1973. And I won't even bring up my NP420 that was built in 1952 that takes 90 SAE (which looks like coal tar BTW).

You got to be careful with those "all" and "always" statements...there's always some wanna-be smartypants like me lurking out there...

I'm still on the fence about what to run next. I am going to get a used oil analysis done on the MTF that I currently have in there. Might just do that and see what they have to say, then decide on the next step??

steved
 
OK, just requested a sampling kit from Blackstone...now my question is, what analysis do I request for the Amsoil synchromesh??

I would assume it isn't a typical engine oil analysis...does their paperwork specify gear lubricants??

Thanks,
steved
 
Too bad you can't get any fluid from Specialty Formulations. I bet Mola could come up with the perfect fluid for this picky transmission.
 
I bet it would sell well. There are a lot of unhappy NV5600 owners that tolerate this poorer shifting.

What analysis should I ask for from Blackstone??

steve
 
OK, the latest...

Got my sampling kit from Blackstone today, which was quite convenient since I was also changing oil in the truck too...So I have a sample of both 10k mile CJ-4 Rotella 15w40 and 10k miles Amsoil MTL (no additives) sitting on the desk on front of me...

I also bought some CRC LSD additive to try...unfortunately it was in a toothpaste-type container and I ended up with just shy of 6 ounces of LSD in on top of 7 quarts of MTL (because you couldn't tell how much was left in the tube)...but the tube simply stated "add entire tube to differential" and most only hold 5 quarts. It also said compatable with any conventional or synthetic gear oil.

I will also add that I had just got done driving the truck around 20 miles and pulled the plug, let a little drain, took the sample, and replaced the plug...only drained about half a quart out...

After adding the LSD additive, after a short drive initial impression was that shifting was actually improving. So I should find out for sure next week since I drive 100 miles a day...

Will post up the UOA when I get it...

steved
 
Well, I've got about 200 miles on the LSD additive. While it did improve things some, it isn't spectacular. Some of my issues might be temperature related as the warmer it is the better it shifts...and lately, my trans guage won't even come off the 120*F mark (the lowest reading I have).

I was able to find some LubeGuard Gear Oil Supplement at the local Napa (special ordered it in)...so if I don't hear back from Specialty Lubes and the Amsoil UOA looks good, I'll probably fill back up with Amsoil and LubeGuard.

I should note that the little bit of fluid I drained Friday was clear, with very little brass floating around. Definately not the worst drain I have seen to date...

Standing by to stand by...

steved
 
Quote:


Too bad you can't get any fluid from Specialty Formulations. I bet Mola could come up with the perfect fluid for this picky transmission.




Has anyone heard from them? I noticed they moved operations, but I emailed them and have not gotten any response...I would really like to try their version of the synchromesh fluid!!!

steved
 
10,143 miles on my Amsoil Synchromesh MTF...

ALUMINUM 3
CHROMIUM 0
IRON 12
COPPER 4
LEAD 2
TIN 0
MOLYBDENUM 0
NICKEL 0
MANGANESE 1
SILVER 0
TITANIUM 0
POTASSIUM 1
BORON 5
SILICON 31
SODIUM 3
CALCIUM 332
MAGNESIUM 3296
PHOSPHORUS 1306
ZINC 951
BARIUM 1

SUS Viscosity @ 210*F = 54.2
Flashpoint in *F = 410
% Water = 0.0
% Insolubles = Trace

STEVE: We didn't find any obvious sign of a problem in this transmission. Wear was very low in this sample. Universal averages are based on an oil run of ~19,700 miles. We are not sure why you need to change the oil to make the transmission shift better, except that when you change the oil it removes any contaminants and/or wear metals that have accumulated in the system, which makes it easier for your transmission to do its job. No moisture was found and the trace of insolubles is not a problem. Is this MTF okay to use, per the manufacturer, in this transmission?


Let me know what this means!!

steved
 
Quote:


Quote:


Too bad you can't get any fluid from Specialty Formulations. I bet Mola could come up with the perfect fluid for this picky transmission.




Has anyone heard from them? I noticed they moved operations, but I emailed them and have not gotten any response...I would really like to try their version of the synchromesh fluid!!!

steved




So would I (in my Tremec T56), but I never recieved a response to an e mail from almost a year back. I REALLY need guarantees/confirmation about their synchromesh fluids as this gearbox can (supposedly) be destroyed by the "wrong" fluid (NOT just "bad shifting" problems!!)
I REALLY, REALLY wish they had a phone number one could call and speak to a "tech" about applications/testing/etc., just like other (some NOT much "bigger" in size/volume) "boutique" oil companies.
frown.gif
 
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