Add to this list of PAO/ester 0w30's please

[Brule]

I'm looking for oils where there's nearly 100% agreement the oil is a group IV or V, and not a hydro-cracked III. [Oils that say "synthetic" on the container and could be sold in Germany as synthetic.] I am in the US so these should be available locally or affordably shipped.

No doubt these are on the list, correct?

1. [Made in Germany] Castrol Edge 0w30 [PAO]
2. Redline 0w30 Motor Oil [Ester]
3. Amsoil 0w30 Signature Series [PAO]
4.
5.

I think Royal Purple, Motul, and Liqui Moly have theirs, but not sure on the product line. I'm going to use one [or more] of these in a Civic Si during winter months.

 

[bigjl]

Have a look on www.opieoils.co.uk as they have a lots of different Ester Synthetic oils on there.

Not saying to order from them unless you have trouble finding a specific product but they have lots of technical specs and Info for you to read.

 

[Brule]

Originally Posted By: bigjl
Have a look on www.opieoils.co.uk as they have a lots of different Ester Synthetic oils on there.

Not saying to order from them unless you have trouble finding a specific product but they have lots of technical specs and Info for you to read.


Thank you. In England does "synthetic" still mean synthetic, like in Germany, and like it used to in the US? That's odd that there are two versions of Castrol Edge 0w30 and neither of them [according to the PDS from that site] are the same as the German Castrol we get here.

 

[skyship]

Liqui Moly make 4 different Synthoils which are group 4's. Two 0/30's an 0/40 and a 5/40, but they use slightly different names in the UK as the HC oils are included in the fully synthetic category.

 

[Gabe]

G Oil, Pennzoil Ultra, and Royal Purple.

I feel the need to mention two things. The first is that St. Louis doesn't really get that cold. Second, better results can be had by manufactures blending different basestocks. Mobil 1 flows much better at the temperatures you could experience than RP SL for example.

 

[bigjl]

That is something that I am trying to figure out myself.

I didn't know much about basestocks till finding Bitog.

But due to EU regulations on these things being rather draconian I would not be surprised if the entire EU was like Germany.

But then again, if by hydrocracking group III basestocks is it then considered "manmade" I don't know.

I thought hydrocracking made sure all the molecules were of uniform size?

I was always led to believe the big advantage of synthetic oils was the uniformity of the molecules in the oil, forgive me for using very basic language I am an outsider and my knowledge of the chemistry of oil is limited mainly to what I have read in articles and on the web.

Though if any large corporate can get away with making more profit the. I personally thi k they will.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: bigjl
But due to EU regulations on these things being rather draconian I would not be surprised if the entire EU was like Germany.

It's not. Only Germany still considers full synthetic to be group IV/V. All other countries have moved on, as it really does not matter anymore. What matters is the actual performance and mfg specs, and there is more than one way to skin the cat.

Interestingly, some BITOG members have not moved on either.

Alas, it's a free country.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Motul Xmax 5w30, Total 9000, Mobil SHC, and varios Fuchs Titan and Pentosin meeting certain BMW LL and MB list 229.5. Royal purple ILSAC oil is NOT a high group syn, and Shell Ultra is slackwax group III XHVI stock primarily (not saying its bad). Look to oils meeting stringent Deutsche spec.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Look to oils meeting stringent Deutsche spec.

You don't necessarily need PAO/ester to meet these specs. When you look at the list of approved MB 229.5 or BMW LL-01 oils, not all of them are PAO/ester.

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: Brule

No doubt these are on the list, correct?

1. [Made in Germany] Castrol Edge 0w30 [PAO]
2. Redline 0w30 Motor Oil [Ester]
3. Amsoil 0w30 Signature Series [PAO]


1. German Castrol: Verified as PAO six years ago - current US sold product unverified
2. Redline: Ester & PAO according to Redline (unverified)
3. Amsoil SSO: Company will not comment on base oils (unverified)

Base oil mixtures can only be verified by gas chromatography and such data is generally unavailable. Beyond GC testing you are relying on the word of the manufacturer (often cleverly misworded), or the opinions of individuals based on data sheet interpretations (often misinterpretations).

Rule of thumb - If the manufacturer does not clearly and unambiguously state that the oil is based only on Groups IV and V, it probably contains significant amounts of Group III. That said, mixtures of Groups III, IV, and V perform equally as well as mixtures of just Group IV and V in the vast majority of engines and driving conditions.

Tom NJ

 

[chubbs1]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Look to oils meeting stringent Deutsche spec.

You don't necessarily need PAO/ester to meet these specs. When you look at the list of approved MB 229.5 or BMW LL-01 oils, not all of them are PAO/ester.


+1 Very true, try not to get stuck on what the base is. Meeting good spec's is a better indicator of the quality of the oil if you have a vehicle requiring those spec's. If not, then unless you are in a freezing tundra just stick with the major brand oils.

 

[Gabe]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Royal purple ILSAC oil is NOT a high group syn, and Shell Ultra is slackwax group III XHVI stock primarily


Interesting. I thought that RP still maintained their old basestocks....

 

[Indydriver]

Originally Posted By: Brule

I think Royal Purple, Motul, and Liqui Moly have theirs, but not sure on the product line. I'm going to use one [or more] of these in a Civic Si during winter months.

I'm curious, why do you think you need these products for a daily driver Civic?

 

[Gabe]

The more i learn about oil, the less I seem to know....

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Gabe
The more i learn about oil, the less I seem to know....


That goes for any subject

 

[azsynthetic]

Maxima 0w30 is group V.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: bigjl
But due to EU regulations on these things being rather draconian I would not be surprised if the entire EU was like Germany.

It's not. Only Germany still considers full synthetic to be group IV/V. All other countries have moved on, as it really does not matter anymore. What matters is the actual performance and mfg specs, and there is more than one way to skin the cat.

Interestingly, some BITOG members have not moved on either.

Alas, it's a free country.


Germany has a greater need for higher performance oils and it was a very good move for them to differentiate between HC and Synthoil, because you can make a bad HC oil, but the G4 & 5 base stocks need to be purchased from a major oil company, so unless something is bad about the add pack a G4 or 5 oil will outlast a conventional. True full synthetics are essential in a few of the higher powered Porsch, BMW and Mercedes engines as they use turbos that can fry a conventional oil when high power settings are used on the autobahn. I drove to Munich early Sunday morning so I could easily cruise at 100 mph in my old diesel Volvo, but had several different German made cars pass me like I was standing still on one long straight section and I would guess they were all doing over 150 mph.
Major brand HC oils are now almost as good as the Synthoils, although most cars that are approved for very long OCI's (Eg 30K km), have dealers that are only using Synthoils, even though the same car sold in the US has dealers that use HC or even part synthetics (Often thinner for fuel economy reasons), which is why they quote a shorter OCI figure in the US, although for a few cars the low fuel standard does have a slight effect.

 

[Clevy]

It's my understanding that additive packages don't dissolve well in group 4 basestocks,so a formulation needs either group 3 or group 5 to properly disperse the additive package.
So a pure group 4 isn't really better than a mix of different groups+a well concieve add pack which makes an oil perform.
Perhaps 10 years ago the different basestocks may have mattered but today's oils are so far beyond what they were,and in a decade they will be again better.
I may be mistaken.
Personally I want to see what's on sale. That determines more than anything now what's going into my fleet.
Lately it's been PP and qsud. If mobil goes on sale when I need oil then I guess I'm using mobil this time.
Just my opinion

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: skyship
Germany has a greater need for higher performance oils and it was a very good move for them to differentiate between HC and Synthoil, because you can make a bad HC oil, but the G4 & 5 base stocks need to be purchased from a major oil company, so unless something is bad about the add pack a G4 or 5 oil will outlast a conventional.

Stringent Euro mfg specs such as MB 229.5 and BMW LL-01 already ensure that you will not end up with "a bad HC oil". The whole group distinction is redundant.

Quote:
although most cars that are approved for very long OCI's (Eg 30K km), have dealers that are only using Synthoils, even though the same car sold in the US has dealers that use HC or even part synthetics

First, there are no cars in the US that are on 30K km OCI, to my knowledge. Second, if a Euro mfg calls for an oil meeting a particular spec, then that's what gets used, in the US as well.

 

[bigjl]

Thanks for that info.

I suppose performance is the main thing to be considered.