AC Delco PF47 - Multiple manufacturers???

[novadude]

I made an interesting observation about AC Delco filters.

I was looking at a PF47 at AutoZone last week, and it appeared to be identical to the Bosch/STP/Supertech filter.

I looked at a PF47 in Pep Boys tonight, and it was noticably different. The holes in the center tube were much larger, and the baseplate was different.

What is the deal? Both stores were in PA, so that rules out Canadian Delco filters. Why are they different? Does AC Delco licence several manufacturers to make filters?

Anyone know anything about this?

 

[UncleS2]

If they look like they're from different manufacturers, they probably are. AC-Delco isn't alone in this. A guy who said he worked for a manufacturer of filter paper used to post on Edmunds a lot. He said that at one time or another, on one filter model or another, virtually all the filter manufacturers made filters for each other. Sometimes because of shortfalls in their own production, sometimes different makers for different markets. I can't prove this is true, but I sure believe it is.

 

[vvk]

Yes, I have noticed it too. PF-47 at AutoZone looks cheap and does not say Made in USA. The one at PepBoys looks much better and does say Made in USA.

 

[Bub]

In what application is the PF47 used?

 

[Ryan00TJ]

The PF-47 is used on Cheverolet V6 motors. My mother's 3.8L Monte Carlo and also my brother's 3.4L Camaro call for them.

 

[Bub]

Thanks, I used to have a 3.4L camaro. I did'nt know the part # because I used to use fram before I saw the mini mopar study. I've also seen the same part # filters look like they were made by different manufacturers when I worked at a quickie lube.

 

[Scott P]

The PF-47 can be easily replaced by the PF-52. The PF-52 is a longer filter, but fits well in the W-Body 3.8 Liter engines. I've been using the PF-52, UPF-52, M1-201, and K&N 2001 (I think) ever since I found that out.

 

[novadude]

Who makes the "Pep Boys" AC filter? The AutoZone piece definitely looks like a Champion labs filter.

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Scott P:
The PF-47 can be easily replaced by the PF-52. The PF-52 is a longer filter, but fits well in the W-Body 3.8 Liter engines. I've been using the PF-52, UPF-52, M1-201, and K&N 2001 (I think) ever since I found that out.

---

That is correct, the K&N HP2001 is the cross reference to the M1-201. K&N and Mobil 1s numbering system is very similar. The K&N HP3002 that I use on my car cross references to the Mobil 1 M1-302, and the HP1004 on my wife's Honda cross references to the M1-104.

[ January 30, 2003, 08:36 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[Mike_dup1]

I read some time back on the GM Media web site that AC Delco had partnered with other leading manf. to fight imported clones in the market. So what you may be finding is some of this pirated brands parts, they make it look just like AC Delco but it is not the same quality. My buddy has a service center and he told me last year he was approached by a salesman trying to sell him these phony AC Delco filters. He got sucked on some of the fuel filters, at first glance they look AC Delco but you find no marking on the package or the filter that tells you where it came from.

The music industry has had this problem too.

I cut and pasted this from http://media.gm.com/

quote:

---

LAS VEGAS -- Counterfeiters take note, instead of preying on innocent automotive parts buyers, you better start looking for a legitimate way to make a living. The recent passage of the Anticounterfeiting Consumer Protection Act and General Motors Service Parts Operations’ (SPO) renewed commitment to stamp out counterfeit trafficking in its automotive parts are both aimed at putting you out of business.

“We're stepping up our efforts considerably to get counterfeits of our parts out of the marketplace,” said Douglas J. Herberger, general director of ACDelco Aftermarket for SPO. “Although I can’t provide the details, I do want to alert counterfeiters that many ACDelco parts and packaging are being secretly marked so that we'll be able to spot any counterfeits at a glance. Let me emphasize that the markings can only be identified with our special equipment. Our increased efforts together with the tough provisions of the Anticounterfeiting Consumer Protection Act will help us crack down on the counterfeiters.

“I want the counterfeiters to understand that we’re serious about maintaining total customer enthusiasm, product quality, reliability and safety. We’re also serious about putting them out of business because counterfeit auto parts are a potential danger to anyone who comes into contact with them, not just the unfortunate person who buys a counterfeit brake shoe.”

Key parts of the Anticounterfeiting Consumer Protection Act include allowing state and local officers, in addition to federal officers, assist in making ex parte seizure of counterfeit merchandise, stopping the re-export of seized counterfeit items and requiring that all counterfeit merchandise seized is destroyed unless other disposition is consented to by the owner.

Individuals who spot a suspected counterfeit GM or ACDelco part are encouraged to report the incident by calling the GM Aware Line at 1-800-244-3460.

ACDelco is part of General Motors Service Parts Operations (SPO), which is headquartered in Flint, Mich. SPO markets automotive replacement parts and accessories worldwide under the GM and ACDelco brand names. For more information, visit the ACDelco “On The Edge” web site at http://www.acdelco.com and the GM Goodwrench Service “Cyberbay” at http://www.gmgoodwrench.com. SPO has exhibits at BIG I/APAA in Booth Number 4038 and SEMA in Booth Number 6650.

---

[ January 30, 2003, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: Mike ]

 

[Drew99GT]

Oh jesus, I just put a PF-52 on my car this weekend. How in the hell do you tell if it's counterfit? How can this people sell counterfit parts under the AC Delco name anyway? They're just illegal in every way shape or form?

 

[novadude]

Drew, I am going to try to post analysis results of 5W-30 Mobil Drive Clean the next time I change oil in the GAGT. You may be interested.

 

[Ray H]

That there are counterfeit products is FACT - whether oil filters, CDs, diamonds, or "Rolex" watches. Illegal? Sure! So is bank robbery and murder. Both happen every day. However, I have confidence (unrealistically?) that the major chains, Pep Boys, Autozone, WallyWorld, etc. DO go to great lengths to insure that their stocks come from legitimate, reputable suppliers. I'd even venture that in many cases, these marketers are distributors, themselves, bypassing one link in the supply chain. I could be wrong, but that's what I think. As to the notion of who supplies Pep Boys AC oil filters and who supplies Autozone's AC oil filters, it's irrelevant. These filters are supplied on contract from multiple sources to avoid a kink in the supply chain.* It's just as likely that a domestic or a foreign-supplied (legitimate) AC PF-47 could be purchased at either store chain at certain times of the year as a simple supply expedient. My point is that if you're purchasing your filters from a reputable source with high turnover rates, you will probably note a difference periodically in the construction which would indicate multiple sources, and, DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT.

*Anyone in personal computers long enough will remember that when IBM specified one hard drive manufacturer for the IBM PC AT ("Advanced Technogy"), the company got burned, good, when the drives started going belly-up within several months of purchase. IBM never made that mistake again. They also never contracted for any outside supplied parts after that fiasco that they first didn't do exhaustive in-house testing on to verify performance and reliability, either.

-Ray Haeffele

[ January 30, 2003, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]

 

[Drew99GT]

OK, I did some investigating this afternoon. I went to Advance Auto Parts, where I recently bought an AC PF-52. All the packaging on their AC filters clearly stated made in the USA. Also, they had the characteristics of an AC filter as stated on the mini mopar oil filter study. That is, 5 spot welds around the base plate and 5 large inlet holes, and no crimps holding the gasket on. I could also see that there were many many outlet holes in the center tube. So I then went to Autozone and examined their AC filters. None of their packaging said made in the USA, and after examning the filters, they were totally differtn than the ones from Advance Auto Parts. They didn't have spot welds on the base plate, and they had crimps to hold the gasket on. They had very few and very small outlet holes leading to the outlet of the filter. They didn't look like a Champion filter at all, and after examining an STP filter, it was IDENTICAL to the AC, so were all the Bosch filters they had. And, on the STP filter it said made in Mexico! And, on the Autozone Delco filters, it had a neon green serial number on the top of the case; that serial number was the same on both the STP and the Bosch ones. That serial number was not on any of the "good" AC filters at Advance Auto Parts. Now that I remember, AC filters from Walmart are like the ones from Autozone. I thought STP and Bosch were made in the USA by Champion? Guess not!

 

[pedaltothemetal]

I concur the Autozone AC filters are different from the ones I got from the dealer. No made in the USA printed, or any country of manufacture. The 6 inlet holes are smaller, and the gasket on the threads is smaller. Also the holes in the center section are smaller. There was a sticker with a PF44s on the box. How come they are $2.00 cheaper even than Jim Pace who is the cheapest online sales makes me wonder. I am thinking of returning them.

Leo

 

[novadude]

Drew... coincidentally, I was buying a filter for a 99 GAGT when I discovered this.

 

[Drew99GT]

Excellent, another 3.4L "ticking time bomb" owner

I think I'm going to switch out my Delco with a Wix. I in fact bought my Delco from Autozone but can't find the box it came in. I'll look at some of the Delco packaging at my local autozone and see what I find, but I don't trust it anyhow after hearing this. God you just can't win anymore with this whole capatalism thing

 

[vettenuts]

Lovely. I have the Autozone filters on several of my cars.

Live and learn.

 

[novadude]

The Autozone AC Delco is identical to the Wal-MArt Supertech, the Bosch, and the STP. I think these are all made by Champion Labs.

How can Autozones all over the country sell different AC Delco filters than the rest of the stores???

Oh... and more. The Champion Labs PF52 equivilant at both Autozone and Walmart says "made in mexico", while the PF47 equivilent says "made in usa". Does Champion labs import filters from mexico for some applications?

One thing I noticed: The Supertech/STP PF47 "USA" filter seemed to have just as many holes in the center tube as the Supertech/STP PF52 "mexico" filter, despite the PF52 filter being longer.

[ January 31, 2003, 08:16 AM: Message edited by: novadude ]

 

[Mike_dup1]

Well, I guess if you want the good AC Delco you may have to get them from a GM or AC Delco Dealer to be sure you get the good ones? I don't know? I always wondered if they were marketing two versions, a lower quality version to compete with the Frams etc and one for GM parts.

A GM parts guy told me years ago that the ones sold in K-mart are not as good as the ones sold thru GM parts. I did not beleive him but you may have stumbled up some like that.

What could happen is, these stores wheel and deal on a big order, then AC Delco goes looking for a manufacture to make the filters, you know "the lowest bidder". Hell, it might even be the same manf. that makes all the others sold thru the chain store. Its common for these stores to make deals like that. 99.9% buy it just becuase of the brand name while the may be all the same on the inside.

[ January 31, 2003, 08:34 AM: Message edited by: Mike ]