AC Delco PF46 Or Fram TG3506

[gmctodd]

Originally Posted By: endeavor to persevere
From GM

AC Delco introduces the next generation of Duraguard® oil filters. This advanced filter technology allows the filter to function better while being lighter and more easily recycled. The oil filter redesign will be a rolling change with no price impact. An improved nylon core provides more open area in the core, yielding more filtering area for improved flow in a smaller canister, while maintaining the same capacity as the larger canister. Increased efficiency, higher collapse strength, and higher burst strength are the result of a roll seam design. The redesigned concave base plate allows for the accommodation of the combination relief and anti-drain back valve, while incorporating a raised threaded flange. Four new filter sizes cover the redesigned part numbers.

I have an 05 GMC sierra and I will NOT put a filter on it with out an anti drain back valve.


__________________


So which is it

You state they don't have an ADBV then post this which states they do!

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: gmctodd
Originally Posted By: endeavor to persevere
From GM

AC Delco introduces the next generation of Duraguard® oil filters. This advanced filter technology allows the filter to function better while being lighter and more easily recycled. The oil filter redesign will be a rolling change with no price impact. An improved nylon core provides more open area in the core, yielding more filtering area for improved flow in a smaller canister, while maintaining the same capacity as the larger canister. Increased efficiency, higher collapse strength, and higher burst strength are the result of a roll seam design. The redesigned concave base plate allows for the accommodation of the combination relief and anti-drain back valve, while incorporating a raised threaded flange. Four new filter sizes cover the redesigned part numbers.

I have an 05 GMC sierra and I will NOT put a filter on it with out an anti drain back valve.


__________________


So which is it

You state they don't have an ADBV then post this which states they do!


What he posted, and what you made bold text ("accommodation of the combination relief and anti-drain back valve") is info from GM talking about the new ACDelco filers with the Ecore design.

 

[endeavor to persevere]

Originally Posted By: gmctodd
Originally Posted By: endeavor to persevere
From GM

AC Delco introduces the next generation of Duraguard® oil filters. This advanced filter technology allows the filter to function better while being lighter and more easily recycled. The oil filter redesign will be a rolling change with no price impact. An improved nylon core provides more open area in the core, yielding more filtering area for improved flow in a smaller canister, while maintaining the same capacity as the larger canister. Increased efficiency, higher collapse strength, and higher burst strength are the result of a roll seam design. The redesigned concave base plate allows for the accommodation of the combination relief and anti-drain back valve, while incorporating a raised threaded flange. Four new filter sizes cover the redesigned part numbers.

I have an 05 GMC sierra and I will NOT put a filter on it with out an anti drain back valve.


__________________


So which is it

You state they don't have an ADBV then post this which states they do!


That's GM introducing the Ecore filter.

The longer filter PF 61 has no ADBV. Some say they would use it. Any filter that GM calls for in a late model full size truck will have an ADBV. I was saying I would not use a filter that didn't have one.

 

[gmctodd]

Yes I assumed this article was in referrence to the E-core design. So, the Ecore's have a combination relief and ADBV. But endeavor posted that the PF61 has no ADBV, contradicting what this statement from GM and the PF61's setting in front of me say. I just need some clarification here.

Why would they need a "relief" valve? GM bypass valves are in the block correct? The only OEM filter I am aware of that comes with a bypass is the PF48, used on 2007- current models(I know there are probably more though)

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, I'm just trying to comprehend

 

[gmctodd]

Sorry, I was posting while you were.

What PF61's do you have? Because the non ecore one's in my possesion DO have ADBV's. I will post a pic of the one I am about to install and will disect the one I remove.

 

[labman]

Not all the Ecores have the bypass. There are several AC filters that do have a bypass, the PF 1127, the stocked by nobody PF 1177, and others.

 

[endeavor to persevere]

I was only speaking of anti drain back valves which the PF46 has one and is called for by GM for my 05 GMC. The reason I feel it needs one is...

I am no engineer when it comes to this but I will tell you what I have been told by the engineer at Wix that I know. The ADB valve is important on certain engines no matter how the filter is mounted. On our GM truck engines and others with the filter mounted upright, it allows oil to remain in some of the passages where it would otherwise drain back.

Again, I asked this same question and was told that if it is designed in from the OE, it is vital that it be there.

 

[endeavor to persevere]

Summit racing website says the PF61 has no ADBV...

ACDelco PF61 - ACDelco Oil Filters


large image $4.95



+ wishlist
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Oil Filter, AC Delco, Each
Application Specific Part: Check Application
Estimated Ship Date: TomorrowEmail this page Share
OverviewApplicationSuggested PartsShow All
Brand ACDelco
Manufacturer's Part Number PF61
Part Type Oil Filters
Product Line ACDelco Oil Filters
Summit Racing Part Number ACF-PF61

Oil Filter Style Canister
Filter Bypass Relief Valve No
Anti-Drainback Valve No
Quantity Sold individually.

 

[gmctodd]

Yes, I too understand the importance of the ADBV in our trucks.I am just trying to figure out what the black rubber seal inside the small holes on the filters I have is, if it's not an ADBV

 

[gmctodd]

Summit Racing also says the PF46 has no ADBV

 

[endeavor to persevere]

Originally Posted By: gmctodd
Summit Racing also says the PF46 has no ADBV


Post from the diesel forum...
I cross-checked the filter against my preferred filter reference, http://www.baldwinfilters.com, and discovered that the PF61 and PF59 are the same size, but the PF59 has an anti-drainback valve, and the PF61 DOES NOT.

another post...


Well, I went to change filter on 02 trailblazer. In the past I had seen PF59 and PF58 recommended for it. PF59 has anti-drainback, PF58 didn't. PF59 was also recommended on my 2wd 4.8L, so I used PF59 for both vehicles.

This time I checked Delco's site and they listed PF61, the 58 was still in the book at advance (outdated). So I called Delco and this is what they told me:

PF59 is now PF46 both have anti-drainback
PF58 is now PF61 no anti-drainback
PF61 & PF46 are only different in the anti-drainback.

They said they could only recommend what they have in the system, but the only diff between the 46 and 61 is the anti-drainback version in the TB. I can't see not putting the one with the valve in there, especially since the trailblazer is driven on sales calls that last anywhere from 5mins to 2 hours.

Am I missing something why they wouldn't want the anti-drainback on there?

Andrew

 

[labman]

Engineers are great for avoiding things that aren't needed. I don't see why one wouldn't be a good idea. An engineer will save money by eliminating things that aren't needed. A beancounter will save money by eliminating things that are.

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: gmctodd
Yes I assumed this article was in referrence to the E-core design. So, the Ecore's have a combination relief and ADBV. But endeavor posted that the PF61 has no ADBV, contradicting what this statement from GM and the PF61's setting in front of me say. I just need some clarification here.

Why would they need a "relief" valve? GM bypass valves are in the block correct? The only OEM filter I am aware of that comes with a bypass is the PF48, used on 2007- current models(I know there are probably more though)

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, I'm just trying to comprehend


The ADBV and bypass valve are NOT the same thing. I think you are confusing one for the other. Maybe you are just flipping subjects at hand, but seems there is some confusion on what the ADBV is compared to the filter bypass valve.

 

[gmctodd]

I am reading several articles as well, I am wondering if at one time the PF61 didn't have one and now does. Most of the posts I have read are getting the ADBV confused with the bypass valve.

Here is a picture I have just taken of one of my PF61's

The needles are sticking in the Rubber seal inside.

I have emailed Champ Labs and DElco and will wait to here what they say.

The PF 61 is still the correct filter for my 08 Envoy which was noted to have the same conditions as our trucks

 

[gmctodd]

Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: gmctodd
Yes I assumed this article was in referrence to the E-core design. So, the Ecore's have a combination relief and ADBV. But endeavor posted that the PF61 has no ADBV, contradicting what this statement from GM and the PF61's setting in front of me say. I just need some clarification here.

Why would they need a "relief" valve? GM bypass valves are in the block correct? The only OEM filter I am aware of that comes with a bypass is the PF48, used on 2007- current models(I know there are probably more though)

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, I'm just trying to comprehend


The ADBV and bypass valve are NOT the same thing. I think you are confusing one for the other. Maybe you are just flipping subjects at hand, but seems there is some confusion on what the ADBV is compared to the filter bypass valve.


NO I am not confusing them with one another. I belive many others are. The reason I asked that question was: If GM installs bypass valves in the block and/or filter mount, Then why would there need to be a "combination relief and ADBV" ( as per the GM statement regarding E-core filters) installed in the filter? Wouldn't a ADBV w/o bypass be enough?

It is my understanding that any vehicle that calls for the PF48 (which includes both bypass and ADBV) no longer has the bypass valve installed on the engine.

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: gmctodd

NO I am not confusing them with one another. I belive many others are. The reason I asked that question was: If GM installs bypass valves in the block and/or filter mount, Then why would there need to be a "combination relief and ADBV" ( as per the GM statement regarding E-core filters) installed in the filter? Wouldn't a ADBV w/o bypass be enough?


Because with the Ecore design, the SAME piece of rubber acts as BOTH the ADBV and bypass valve. I doubt they are not going to design a special filter just for GM engines that don't need a bypass valve built into the filter. They want to cover as many engines as possible with one filter design to save engineering and production costs.

Go look at filters that are NOT Ecore design and you will find that any GM engine with the bypass valve built into the block will specify a filter that only has a ADBV and NOT a bypass valve.

On a side note - I'm a leery of the functionality/reliability of the Ecore's "dual valve" design. How's that nitrile rubber valve work at -25 deg F when the filter needs to go into bypass due to really thick oil? If they used a silicone material, I'd feel more comfortable.

 

[gmctodd]

OK, I think I see what your saying here!.....

The PF61, for example, could possibly fit other non GM vehicles,but can't be used because there is no bypass valve. By going to the E-core design (which has a combination bypass and ADBV) this filter may be used for more than just GM applications???? CORRECT?

Now back to the bigger concern for me, The DOES or DOES NOT have an ADBV "?" From the picture I posted above (PF61), Isn't that rubber seal a ADBV?

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: gmctodd

Now back to the bigger concern for me, The DOES or DOES NOT have an ADBV "?" From the picture I posted above (PF61), Isn't that rubber seal a ADBV?


Hard to say from the small photo, but I'd say yes, it has a ADBV.

 

[gmctodd]

On a side note: On the FRAM filter site the PF61 crosses to two different fram numbers:

PH9837-- no bypass, no ADBV
PH3675-- no bypass, with ADBV

If I use their application lookup for my 2005 GMC 2500 6.0L it calls for......

The PH9837 with NO ADBV. No mention of the PF46/PH3506 which it specs for 2004.

Conclusion for me: Since the PF61 is no longer available in the non E-core design, I will use the Puro P1 PL25288 on the truck and the PF61's on the Envoy until they are gone, Then the P1 for both.

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: gmctodd

Conclusion for me: Since the PF61 is no longer available in the non E-core design, I will use the Puro P1 PL25288 on the truck and the PF61's on the Envoy until they are gone, Then the P1 for both.


Can't go wrong with the PureONE IMO.

gmctodd - FYI, if you want to see the guts of an Ecore filter, look at this thread. See the one rubber piece that is both the ADBV and the bypass valve.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/super-tech-st3387a-oil-filter-cutaway-photos.115703/

Do note though, that the photo on the box shows TWO SETS of holes, but the photo of the base plate on the cut open filter only has ONE SET of holes. Maybe that is how the Ecore is without a bypass function for vehicles like GM that have the bypass in the engine block - remove the inner set of holes in the base plate.