A question to AEHASS

[ewetho]

I have read your dissertations in motor oil and find the quite fascinating but have one question why would say a NEON be spec'd for 5w-30 or 10W-30 here in the US but 10W-40 in UK and 15W-50 or 20W-50 in Australia??? All the same engine made here in Illinois but yet different oils???

This is the one nagging question and mystery I do not understand!!! And why there is resistance on some level to thought of 5W-20 being good (yet I have seen Ford V-10 engines undergoing valve stem seal replacement and the cross hatch is plainly evident and not even and real varnishing to talk about and my dealership did the oil changed for at least the last 100K of its 198+K miles)

Yes in those countries if you have a US spec Neon they say to use FULL SYNTHETIC 5W-30 but really any thoughts???

 

[Gary Allan]

Would you have spec'd an engine for 5w-20 with no mass availability of the product? It would be hard to do before 2002. Look up 5w-20 in the global pages of the major oil companies and try and find 20 grade oil. Unless I did something wrong with the search feacture on XOM's website, they don't sell 5w-20 in most of Europe. Why not? They make enough of the stuff and surely know how. You would have had the same problem here (other than Canada maybe) before 2002. I guess 73 or 74 would be the exception with M1 and their first offering. Otherwise, I think it's been (mostly, I'm sure there are exceptions) 20w-20 for the leftovers that run it.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Gary - Some Euro engine makers did indeed move to a 5W-20 lubricant many years ago. At the time it was the wrong decision!

20w-20 lubricants were very popular in certain countries in the 1960s and 1970s. It was a popular VW (Types 1,2 and 3) winter fill in Scandinavia for instance during this time. Within Chevron-Caltex at the time we used the HD versions

 

[ewetho]

Ford and Honda sure did spec it before availability. Remember the early manuals telling you to run 5W-30 when not available???

But in relation to his excellent oil write ups and a recent car say my 2004 Neon, why is there two specs for my cars engine. In UK and Australia they spec 10W-40 and 15 or 20W-50 for the same engine and if you have a US spec one it is to get the available 5W-30 synthetic. WHY???

Seems ODD..... My wife who lived in Florida her whole life until a couple years ago never remembered seeing 5W-30 (I had gotten it there back around 1990-1 so I know it was their) let alone 5W-20 which she never heard of. It was not popular. All she ever say was 10W-30.

But still why if it is so great on 5W-30 would you spec heavier stuff over there. Is it merely driving style??? If I do not do a lot of short trip stuff and spend more like an hour per trip would I be better served with say a 0W-40, 5W-40 or 5W-50 for this service???

Not sure.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
in OZ Mobil recommend the following viscosities;

MY96-99 2.0 ltr = 10W-40 and 15W-40
MY99-02 PL 2.0 ltr = 10W-30 and 5W-30
MY00-06 2.0 & 2.4 ltr = 10W-30 and 5W-30

Castrol list the same viscosities!

 

[Pablo]

It may be hard to believe but sometimes oils specified in certain countries are based on cultural bias, climate and availability. Not always one or the other, sometimes a combination. It sounds corny but it's not much deeper than that. It doesn't mean a 0W-20 or 20W-50 will protect better or worse. You'll need to dig deeper to get the $20,000 answer.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Pablo - As an extensive traveller I can assure you that local availability has always played the MAJOR role!

 

[gtx510]

Only one engine for a Neon?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Neon_engine

 

[crinkles]

My australian built camry can take anything from 5W-30 to 20W-50 based on the owner's manual... as it never really gets below freezing here.

So, Do I pay $15 / 5L for 20W-50 or $40 / 5L for 10W-30?

Surely Toyota could just write A spec and stick to it... 10W-30 or bust...

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
As an extensive traveller I can assure you that local availability has always played the MAJOR role!


Well, I surely agree ..but I think Pablo was stating which comes first, the chicken or the egg. If you've got a vast "belief" system that leans toward heavier oils ..and no one seeks out lighter oils due to dogma, just who is going to give you a selection of lighter oils in a market that doesn't want them? Many things aren't in a "build it and they will come" format. If not for CAFE, our oils would be broken down to (most common) SAE 30 (good) 10w-30 (better) and 10w-40 (best). That's how it was at every gas station and oil vending point of sale from who remembers when until the mid 70's. You could get 20w-20 and SAE 30 cheap enough ..but 10w-40 was at the top of the price scale and considered the best thing you could do for your car. More savvy types just went with 20 weight in the winter and 30 weight in the warmer months ..but who listened to them

 

[Titan]

Gary, I recall exactly what you are talking about. 10W-40 was higher priced and marketed at the BEST, with 10W-30 not as "good" as 10W-40. In actuality, the 10W-30 may have been better, because it would have fewer VII's, therefore holding grade better, and let's not forget: VII's aren't lubricants.

 

[Gary Allan]

You may recall the Sunoco commercial (I forget their label - the stuff stank compared to Exxon products) where the station owner (actor) would be talking about a drive to Florida "now some 40 weights will thin to a 30 weight by the time you get there" (paraphrased)

Quaker State did the same thing. Their 10w-40 had a gold print "Deluxe" (iirc) and the 10w-30 (although the spec'd weight for most new cars/trucks) was cheaper.

 

[ewetho]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
in OZ Mobil recommend the following viscosities;

MY96-99 2.0 ltr = 10W-40 and 15W-40
MY99-02 PL 2.0 ltr = 10W-30 and 5W-30
MY00-06 2.0 & 2.4 ltr = 10W-30 and 5W-30

Castrol list the same viscosities!


Actually got those listed above specs from Shell.

 

[ewetho]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
You may recall the Sunoco commercial (I forget their label - the stuff stank compared to Exxon products) where the station owner (actor) would be talking about a drive to Florida "now some 40 weights will thin to a 30 weight by the time you get there" (paraphrased)

Quaker State did the same thing. Their 10w-40 had a gold print "Deluxe" (iirc) and the 10w-30 (although the spec'd weight for most new cars/trucks) was cheaper.

I remember those cans of oil!!! OK I did not drive yet but my Dads ford listed certain things and only Quaker State would do and before the plastic bottle revolution those were definitely it.

 

[Audi Junkie]

I feel like I fell asleep and woke up in 2003. Looking at those Q cans takes me back another 30 years. I think Grandpa Clark used to spike them with a quart of Rislone.

 

[OVERKILL]

Wow, yeah, I remember those cans from my grandfather's boat house! He used to have old oil, grease, gear lube...etc in an old GE fridge! He had those QS cans, some random outboard oil sold by OMC....etc. Brings back the memories

 

[mechtech2]

Gas stations used to have a drain rack for those cans. They would drain and get the last 1/4 ounce out of them.
Kept the tow truck in new oil.

 

[Gary Allan]

Our day manager used to collect the drippings and use it in his upstate farm tractors. It was mostly the good stuff. They had a pair of runners that you would load the empty cans on. They would lay and drain. It would hold about 3-4 cans before the next one pushed the first one over the edge to fall into the removable hopper in the base.

Well, I guess I did a decent job of hijacking this thread

 

[AcuraTech]

Instead of wondering what why and how, just run a couple OCI's with different weight oils. Make sure they are somewhat substantially different weights. (Say 5W-20 vs 10W-40). Send it in for analysis. Post the results on BITOG. Then we can discuss.

 

[ewetho]

Possible, but I do know my 10W-30 conventional Havoline before DS UOA was fantastic even througha Chicago Winter!!!