A PAO morning

[OVERKILL]

Was -30C this AM, the CCS limit for 5W-xx lubes, when my wife went to work. As we've discussed over the years, oils are permitted to slip a Winter grade in service, this is due to PPD degradation. So a 5W-20 can become a 10W-20, 0W-20 can become a 5W-20...etc.

Pan in the truck is full of some well-aged HPL SC 0W-20, which is a PAO-based lubricant. PAO of course doesn't require PPD's to maintain its cold temperature performance, so it is unlikely to change much in service as the oil ages (there is no wax from which wax crystals can form).

This is very much the "use an oil with a Winter grade that's suitable for the anticipated ambient conditions" manifest, a founding tenant of BITOG philosophy since I first joined almost 20 years ago now.

 

[KGMtech]

-17C this morning here, and uphill both ways.

 

[hemioiler]

So.... no HPL 40 grade in your future eh?

I'm tempted to run that after seeing @Hohn's thread, but it would only be from may - october. I have 0w-30 premium plus in mine right now but previous years have run PCMO 5w-20 and had no issues at -23 which was the coldest its started at.

 

[Number_35]

There are only about 5300 km on the 5W-30 SuperTech synthetic in our 2007 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.3, but we've gone through a lot of fuel, and have racked up a lot of idling time this winter. Severe usage plus.

The weather remains very cold, with an ORANGE WARNING from Environment Canada still in effect.

I'm tempted to dump the oil and go with my new one-oil-for-all-vehicles-all-year - Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30, selected after much discussion here on BITOG. I stocked up when it went on sale a couple of months ago.

But @Hohn's thread has also got me thinking about using an HPL single-grade for the summer. But that's a ways off ... I think the ESP 0W-30 will be good to see us through winter and into summer.

 

[Quattro Pete]

It was -28C here this morning, although a bit warmer in the garage. Crosstrek did fine with whatever 0W-20 oil the dealer put in there, although it cranked pretty slow.

 

[Skippy722]

Was -1F/-18C yesterday. Expedition has whatever 5w30 the Ford dealer used, Challenger which I primarily drive now has HPL Supercar 0w30. The cobalt has Valvoline Restore and Protect 5w30 in it, but I don't drive it when it's below 30 on account of the thermostat being stuck open.

On the fence of what to do with the Expedition.... Never had turbo's before and it's had a life of 5k oil changes up to 90k miles. Do I go HPL and 10k changes myself or spend the $70-$100 at the dealer where they can deal with skid plates every 5k?

 

[Hohn]

Was -30C this AM, the CCS limit for 5W-xx lubes, when my wife went to work. As we've discussed over the years, oils are permitted to slip a Winter grade in service, this is due to PPD degradation. So a 5W-20 can become a 10W-20, 0W-20 can become a 5W-20...etc.

Pan in the truck is full of some well-aged HPL SC 0W-20, which is a PAO-based lubricant. PAO of course doesn't require PPD's to maintain its cold temperature performance, so it is unlikely to change much in service as the oil ages (there is no wax from which wax crystals can form).

This is very much the "use an oil with a Winter grade that's suitable for the anticipated ambient conditions" manifest, a founding tenant of BITOG philosophy since I first joined almost 20 years ago now.

GTL also has no waxes, so it can deliver some of the PAO-like cranking ability until you’re colder than the 0w delineation.

Some PAOs can achieve something like a -5w or -10w if those grades existed.

I wish SAE would consider adding 00w and 000w winter grades, just dropping the test points for each linearly. This would really highlight the difference in oils in extreme cold.

I’ll be getting the opportunity to acid test my 15w-40 HPL PCMO as the GX has to park outside during this storm due to extenuating circumstances. Tomorrow should be the coldest crank I’ve attempted yet on the 15w.

Also, I grabbed several bottles of thicker oils and set them out back. I’ll do a pour test tomorrow of: HPL 15w-40, HPL SAE 40, VR1 20w-50, Valvoline Advanced 20w-50, and Delo XSP 15w-40. The 0w-30 ESP will provide the 0w reference for our contrast.

 

[shortyb]

I wouldn't last a day in winter where you guys are. I have to go where the weather matches my clothes as Jimmy said, and I prefer my 3-piece suit. Shorts, T-shirt, flip flops .

 

[Donald]

If you have a Ford PSD I would seriously worry about the CP4 HPFP being properly lubricated than the engine assuming your using a quality synthetic motor oil.

 

[Donald]

I wouldn't last a day in winter where you guys are. I have to go where the weather matches my clothes as Jimmy said, and I prefer my 3-piece suit. Shorts, T-shirt, flip flops .

No shirt, no shoes, no problem, Key West. Just shorts needed.

 

[shortyb]

No shirt, no shoes, no problem, Key West. Just shorts needed.

My kinda guy.

 

[Number_35]

I wish SAE would consider adding 00w and 000w winter grades, just dropping the test points for each linearly. This would really highlight the difference in oils in extreme cold.

I love this idea!

 

[AJB0009]

It was -28C here this morning, although a bit warmer in the garage. Crosstrek did fine with whatever 0W-20 oil the dealer put in there, although it cranked pretty slow.

My son recently bought at 21 Crosstrek Limited. When it sits outside in +40F it sounds like it is not going to start it turns over so slow. It has a brand-new Die-Hard Gold battery. What is up with that? It is sitting outside in Pittsburgh now; we will see how it does there. Bulk 0W-20 in the sump from free dealer oil change.

 

[GSCJR]

I've got my dad's '12 F150 5.0L in the driveway, it's got 402k kms on it and at 16% on the OLM. @ -20c it fired up just like it does every other day with conventional 5w-30, I'm pretty sure it was Castrol GTX I used last. I drove off gingerly, immediately after putting my seat belt on. The cold transmission shifted normally too.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

So.... no HPL 40 grade in your future eh?

I'm tempted to run that after seeing @Hohn's thread, but it would only be from may - october. I have 0w-30 premium plus in mine right now but previous years have run PCMO 5w-20 and had no issues at -23 which was the coldest its started at.

Huh??? A 0w40 would perform identically to any other 0wXX oil at -30*.

And, of course you didn’t have problems at -23*, because that didn’t exceed the winter rating of a 5w oil.

Not trying to be snarky, but you’re polluting oil grades with winter ratings in your thinking.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I've got my dad's '12 F150 5.0L in the driveway, it's got 402k kms on it and at 16% on the OLM. @ -20c it fired up just like it always does with conventional 5w-30, I'm pretty sure it was Castrol GTX I used last. I drove off gingerly, immediately after putting my seat belt on. The cold transmission shifted normally too.

That’s the point of having ratings and requirements

 

[OVERKILL]

GTL also has no waxes, so it can deliver some of the PAO-like cranking ability until you’re colder than the 0w delineation.

AFAIK, GTL does in fact have wax in it, just less than traditional Group III bases, which is why it still requires PPD's. The pour points of Shell's GTL bases reflects this:

A 5cSt PAO has a pour point of -57C in comparison, and an 8cSt PAO has a pour point of -48C.

This is because the process to produce the base oil (hydrocracking) is the same as for traditional Group III bases, the feedstock is just superior, so you get fewer impurities and less wax, but that feedstock is still a long chained waxy hydrocarbon.

 

[hemioiler]

Huh??? A 0w40 would perform identically to any other 0wXX oil at -30*.

And, of course you didn’t have problems at -23*, because that didn’t exceed the winter rating of a 5w oil.

Not trying to be snarky, but you’re polluting oil grades with winter ratings in your thinking.

I said "40 grade", as in "SAE 40", not "0w-40". Which is why I referenced Hohn's thread where he experiments with running pure 40 grade but maybe you missed that thread.

 

[Hohn]

AFAIK, GTL does in fact have wax in it, just less than traditional Group III bases, which is why it still requires PPD's. The pour points of Shell's GTL bases reflects this:
View attachment 321430

A 5cSt PAO has a pour point of -57C in comparison, and an 8cSt PAO has a pour point of -48C.

This is because the process to produce the base oil (hydrocracking) is the same as for traditional Group III bases, the feedstock is just superior, so you get fewer impurities and less wax, but that feedstock is still a long chained waxy hydrocarbon.

My understanding was that, while it has many paraffins (essentially all) they were branched in such a way that could not crystallize under service conditions. So, no normal linear hydrocarbons that would crystallize to wax agglomeration.

I could be mistaken, I guess it turns on what “wax” means.

AFAIK there is no “cloud point” or analogous precipitation like you’d get with diesel fuel.

The Shell guide isn’t as helpful as I’d hoped.

https://www.shell.com/content/dam/s...and-solvents-urban-brochure-desktop-print.pdf

 

[OVERKILL]

My understanding was that, while it has many paraffins (essentially all) they were branched in such a way that could not crystallize under service conditions. So, no normal linear hydrocarbons that would crystallize to wax agglomeration.

I could be mistaken, I guess it turns on what “wax” means.

AFAIK there is no “cloud point” or analogous precipitation like you’d get with diesel fuel.

The Shell guide isn’t as helpful as I’d hoped.

https://www.shell.com/content/dam/s...and-solvents-urban-brochure-desktop-print.pdf

From a Shell presentation:

So the FT process is used to produce a synthesized long-chained waxy hydrocarbon feedstock (a cleaner and superior feedstock) to the Hydrocracking process (used to produce Group II/III bases) where MOST of the wax is removed (catalyst dewaxing), but some remains, which is why you get wax crystal formation. Of course you get less of it with GTL because there's less wax in the finished product.

This is why GTL still requires PPD's (hence the pour points for the base oils), but not as much, and they are more effective at the same dose, than with traditional Group III's.