A few Q's from a UK newbie !!!

[evoid]

Amazement was my first reaction to this site , never seen so much debate on lubes

U guy's have a SERIOUS interest in the slippery stuff !!

Just thought I would aquaint u with the general UK lube scene. Most guy's here think thicker is better , no matter what they drive doh !! Castrol have a product called RS 10w60 and they think it's the meaning of life !! Closely followed by Mobil 1 5w50 motorsport.
We are talking performance cars here BTW.

General drivers don't have a clue , most go on price or brand and Castrol generally rules here , followed by parts store brands and Gas majors like Shell , Texaco etc.

I like to think I have educated myself a little better on the subject and after research I use Redline 10w30 in my Mitsubishi Evo 6 , an earlier version of yr Evo 8 , same high output 2ltr turbo motor.
I have noticed some negative oppinion for Redline here , would appreciate yr comments.

I have also become aware that Amsoil seem to have a bad rep for their marketing tactics and product quality , again comments appreciated.

The 1 thing I am confused about is although TBN is very important , I see that Redline is actually quite low , like on 10w30 it's 5 , but Amsoil is 12.2 !!Does this infer Redline inferiority , or am I missing something ?

This site will be a voyage of some discovery for me , look forward to aquiring much more extensive knowledge.

Cheers
guys

 

[buster]

quote:

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I have noticed some negative oppinion for Redline here , would appreciate yr comments.

I have also become aware that Amsoil seem to have a bad rep for their marketing tactics and product quality , again comments appreciated.

The 1 thing I am confused about is although TBN is very important , I see that Redline is actually quite low , like on 10w30 it's 5 , but Amsoil is 12.2 !!Does this infer Redline inferiority , or am I missing something ?

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Redline confuses everyone evoid. My opinion so far of it is mixed. It uses a base oil that all other formulators don't use. Whether it's due to cost or performance, no one is quite sure. Roy Howell is the chemist and if you read the home page of RL's webpage, it clearly states that cost is the issue most formulators blend small amounts of POE in with PAO's which is a cheaper solution. However, there has been some good discussion/debate on the negative sides of using an all POE base stock, and 500ppm of Moly.

Amsoil's racing oil's run $8.35qt and they chose to use a PAO so I question the cost aspect of it all. RL's TBN is about a 10 to start where as M1/Amsoil are about 12. I personally think RL's TBN drops off quicker then the other two, some will disagree. TBN retention is what you want to look for in long drains.

Amsoil's marketing turns some people off but their quality is very good. Some say they have the best quality control of all of them. Amsoil/Mobil are very similar anymore and each have viscosity grades that are a tad better in some aspects. Mobil 1 is a API oil and uses a different approach around the lower ZDP levels. Amsoil has the benefit of using more ZDP.

It really seems that additives are getting so much better and that using a group V base oil (POE) isn't necessary for most daily drivers. It's the most stable basestock and for racing I'm sure it's ideal, but we have seen so many great UOAs with oils using Grps II, III and IV with a nice balance of additives. This seems to be the trend. The former chemist of Amsoil went to Synergyn I believe and they use PAO as well.

There are misconceptions about viscosity. I don't think it's that big of a deal. If your runnng a thin oil, and it's formulated well, you don't need a thick oil. 0w-30's are the future and with advanced additives being used, thick oils are becomming a thing of the past.

[ May 28, 2004, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[Quattro Pete]

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Originally posted by evoid:
Most guy's here think thicker is better , no matter what they drive doh !!

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LOL! Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Everyone thinks I'm nuts when I tell them I want to run 0w-30 Castrol SLX in my turbo. They all run Castrol TWS 10w-60 and such. We have a Volvo V40 T4 in our family, and the dealer uses TWS in it as well.

Oh yeah, and

to BITOG!

 

[evoid]

Thanx for yr reply buster , but I need to ask the following :-

What are UOA's ?

Where can I find info on the base oil groups u mention ?

 

[evoid]

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Originally posted by Quattro Pete:

quote:

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Originally posted by evoid:
Most guy's here think thicker is better , no matter what they drive doh !!

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LOL! Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Everyone thinks I'm nuts when I tell them I want to run 0w-30 Castrol SLX in my turbo. They all run Castrol TWS 10w-60 and such. We have a Volvo V40 T4 in our family, and the dealer uses TWS in it as well.

Oh yeah, and

to BITOG!

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LOL , so , a tradition not confined to the UK then

These people just don't know about bearing flows and high RPM pumping problems with heavy viscosity lubes

 

[buster]

UOA= Used Oil analysis
POE- Polyolester which is a group V base stock
PAO- Polyalfaolifin which is a group IV.

M1/Amsoil/GC are PAO's with small amounts of POE. Redline is rumored to be all POE. Not sure if thats a good thing or a bad thing. Redline and Motul are the only all Group V synthetics I know of.

 

[DockHoliday]

I have not seen any post regarding issues with Amsoil quality, only the MLM and price. Darn good oil!

No quality issues with Redline or Royal Purple either. Keep in mind that many of these debates are people splitting hairs. Amsoil vs. RP vs. RL vs. M1. Maybe one is better than the rest, but they are all kick *** motor oils, and IMHO you can't go wrong with any of the above(same for many other brands).

Regarding viscosity, it has long been my feeling that one of the benefits of Synthetic is that you can use a lower viscosity as the synthetics are more shear and heat stable. I have been running M1 5W30 since the mid 80s, and have never had any oil consumption issues, or motor problems. I am currently running Amsoil, but may switch over to RP. Why change brands? No idea, just get a hankerin for a different flavor.

 

[evoid]

Thanx again buster , could I trouble u a little further ?

So group V is polyolester , a ne others in this group ?

I presume PAO'S & Diesters r group IV ?

So how do group I to III go ?

Dock ,
Hear what u say bout splitting hairs , altho I have to say that I really like the Polyolester feature of Redline because it's just has to be the ultimate for hard used turbo motors. I'm running almost 500 BHP in my Evo with an engine rev limit of 8200 RPM !!!

Have seen a few posts here about how paranoid 'Vette owners are about oil changes , I'm surprised , those motors are hardly highly stressed !!! Is there a particular reason for this ?

 

[Sin City]

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Where can I find info on the base oil groups u mention ?

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Here is a good article from Chevron about base oils.web page

 

[Sin City]

Here is another article from Chevron about synthetic base oils. web page

 

[DockHoliday]

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Originally posted by evoid:
I'm running almost 500 BHP in my Evo with an engine rev limit of 8200 RPM !!!

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I picked up a Volvo S60 R last fall (300 HP, turbo, 6 speed MT, AWD). Per the Kill stories on the Volvo forums (such as swedespeed) the Evo is one of the few cars I should not challenge.

I ran Amsoil 0W30 all last winter, and was very pleased. Cold winter starts (0 F) were a snap, had no oil consumption, and got a good UOA after 6K miles (get free oil changes every 7,500, so I changed). The new Amsoil and RedLine 5W40 oils have piqued my interest . Could be the perfect all season oil.