A Day that will live in Infamy

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A walk around survey at a liberal arts college in the LA area found that almost 40% of the enrolled students with history, government or international studies as a major had no idea that there was some significance to the date December 7th, 1941. An addition 18% thought there was something significant but only got the correct answer when prompted by a multiple choice written question and some blatant hints from the pollsters. At a new construction site on campus putting up a 4 story building, 100% of the people working there knew the significance of that date.
 
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
A walk around survey at a liberal arts college in the LA area found that almost 40% of the enrolled students with history, government or international studies as a major had no idea that there was some significance to the date December 7th, 1941. An addition 18% thought there was something significant but only got the correct answer when prompted by a multiple choice written question and some blatant hints from the pollsters. At a new construction site on campus putting up a 4 story building, 100% of the people working there knew the significance of that date.
cite that...
 
I found the news this week of the discovery of the USS Ward timely and fascinating. The Ward fired the first shot of WW2 for the US when it fired upon and dropped depth charges on a Japanese submarine outside the sub nets at Pearl Harbor. This was just hours before the main attack occurred. The Ward was struck by a kamikaze plane exactly three years later on Dec 7, 1944 and sunk. Paul Allen’s research vessel discovered the destroyer in Ormoc bay in the Philippines. This discovery plus the recent discovery of the USS Indianapolis brings to light the history of WW2 and will be a great teaching tool for further generations. They need to learn why we fought the war and why it ended the way it did, not a revised historical fiction that is being taught today. The US can proudly claim Japan and Germany as true friends and allies, something that would be unbelievable back in the 40’s. Never forget and learn from these events.
 
What if the many aircraft on site had been out on long range patrols? They would have been able to detect the approach of this Japanese fleet and there's no way that the Japanese carriers could have launched an aircraft quickly enough to have chased down and destroyed these Americans. What if the Japanese fleet had faced a determined American opposition with the commander thinking "I've got something for you."
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
What if .... What if....
The short answer is the U.S. did not for a moment think Japan would be able to mount a serious threat against the U.S. And yes they viewed Japan as a bunch of backwards "Yellow People"
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
What if .... What if....
The short answer is the U.S. did not for a moment think Japan would be able to mount a serious threat against the U.S. And yes they viewed Japan as a bunch of backwards "Yellow People"
Of course, those attitudes are no longer tenable...
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Ducked
In the US? Driven by fatter people. Diet Coke demographics.
grin grin grin
Taller and stronger, too...scary enough to keep Taiwan from being absorbed by the mainland. ;^)
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
What if the many aircraft on site had been out on long range patrols?
They'd have had to be flying where the Japanese ships were. It's a big ocean. I doubt such a flight of warplanes would have been loaded; it was peacetime for the U.S. — for a very short time longer.
 
My parents remember it like it was yesterday. They were both pre-teens. My Mom had relatives that lived within sight of Pearl Harbor, and they watched the attack from their house. They had some very harrowing stories of that day.
 
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
What if .... What if....
The short answer is the U.S. did not for a moment think Japan would be able to mount a serious threat against the U.S. And yes they viewed Japan as a bunch of backwards "Yellow People"
Yep, not for a moment... http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/wor...f0fd2b71be0986d Nobody, not even designers of buildings ever thought that they'd be hit by planes either.
 
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
A walk around survey at a liberal arts college in the LA area found that almost 40% of the enrolled students with history, government or international studies as a major had no idea that there was some significance to the date December 7th, 1941. An addition 18% thought there was something significant but only got the correct answer when prompted by a multiple choice written question and some blatant hints from the pollsters. At a new construction site on campus putting up a 4 story building, 100% of the people working there knew the significance of that date.
So (NNot directed at you OneEyeJack, just a request for everybody), what do you teach and tell some small kids (5 and 8 years old)? They've been told at school something happen and watch some History channel promos about Pacific WWII already. Much appreciated!
 
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
What if .... What if....
The short answer is the U.S. did not for a moment think Japan would be able to mount a serious threat against the U.S. And yes they viewed Japan as a bunch of backwards "Yellow People"
That then begs the question of why the US maintained a large naval fleet as well as an army air base way out in the Pacific? If there was no threat, then why bother? For that matter, by December 1941 the capabilities and the ambitions of the Japanese should have been clear. Surely it wasn't a secret that Japan had built a large blue water navy and that it had also developed and deployed many capable aircraft? OTOH, many Japanese at the time saw the attack on Pearl as a turning point in the war which would inevitably lead to the destruction of Japan. They were right.
 
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
What if .... What if....
The short answer is the U.S. did not for a moment think Japan would be able to mount a serious threat against the U.S. And yes they viewed Japan as a bunch of backwards "Yellow People"
That then begs the question of why the US maintained a large naval fleet as well as an army air base way out in the Pacific? If there was no threat, then why bother? For that matter, by December 1941 the capabilities and the ambitions of the Japanese should have been clear. Surely it wasn't a secret that Japan had built a large blue water navy and that it had also developed and deployed many capable aircraft? OTOH, many Japanese at the time saw the attack on Pearl as a turning point in the war which would inevitably lead to the destruction of Japan. They were right.
None of us lived at that time, so I think we are all chair-warriors... We may not know all the answers to: -human reactions -Human interests/under the table deals -cultural reactions -at the time reactions Japan had been expanding in Asia from the 1890's... It was logical to secure against the biggest treat since British Navy was busy with European War. Also taking out Pearl Harbor meant less reinforcements for the Philippines and other US Asian bases...
 
Lots of interesting points brought up. Japan had ambitions and somewhat resented the Washington Naval treaty which limited ships to a 5:5:3 ratio between Britian, US and Japan. Without that treaty though it would have bankrupted nations who were planning on a naval arms race. Remember the biggest navel battle in history was at Jutland in WWI. The Japanese knew that they'd have no chance of defeating the US in a regular war. Yamamoto knew that as he had studied in the US and knew US industry was much larger than Japan. The only chance he felt they had was to knock out the US fleet at Pearl and hope that with their fleet out of action that the US would sue for peace. That sorta backfired as they didn't anticipate the US response. Some would say that they were somewhat forced into it as the US was a major oil exporter at the time and the US had cut off oil to Japan due to their invasion of Manchuria. So Japan either had to withdraw or go to war with the US and secure it's own oil supplies in the west indies. There were long on going negotiations that lasted months before December 7. The US actually were somewhat prepared for an attack the Sunday before. They had long range catalina flying boats which were used for recon, but it's all visual, if weather was bad, they wouldn't be seen. Probably part of the mindset at the time that if they were going to attack, it'd be somewhere closer to Japan and that their fleet wouldn't make the long journey to Pearl. The US does make a big deal about the surprise attack, but that's somewhat traditional in war. Hitler never really declared war on any of the countries he invaded, except the US and that proved to be a mistake.
 
After Pearl Harbor the guidelines for ships at port changed. For the most part. From time to time several carriers will be docked at the same facility. Usually to try and get the sailors home at Christmas. Pictures show five carriers in port in 2012. But my guess is security is high when any carrier is port in VA much less five.
 
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