97 Bonneville Spark Plug location

[Barkleymut]

Quick question for everyone. My wife - love her - but... she volunteered me to change the plugs on her grandma's BonnyV. Problem is that she forgot how my arms got all torn up and how long it took on her 01 T&C van. Does anyone know if the plugs are easy to get to on the 97 BonnyV's? I believe it is a 3.8L. Any brand recommendations would be appreciated also. I will probably just use the cheaper version as she only logs 3-4K per year and she is already up there in age (86). The reason I am asking is because I do not want to have to buy everything, drive across town, and then realize it will be a 3 hour job. Thanks!

 

[beast3300]

There are 3 plugs in the back yes. You will have to remove the "3800" plastic cover from the engine to access them. Also removing the strut tower bar will also aid in remove of the rear. Caution on spark plug #6 (rear plug, next to Oxygen sensor). You don't want to put pressure on the sensor and dent it, etc.

As far as brand goes it will do best on GM's stock recommendation. Autozone or similar will carry them. Part number is 41-101 Iridium plugs. Visually gap these plugs. Meaning don't stick a gapper in there if they look even. The iridium tip will bend or break off if you gap them. Stock gap is .060 and those plugs will come out of the box in that gap +/- .02.


It would be advisable to have a wobble extension for that #6 plug, or you can just use the standard 5/8 spark plug socket with no extension and alitle patience. I would also suggest purchasing spark plug wires. The plug wires may not come off in a reusuable state. It shouldn't take 3 hrs to do.

If a plugwire absolutely won't twist or pull off then just use a prybar and break the plug porcelin off in the wire. The spark plug will still come out, it just won't have the porcelin.

Hope this helps.

 

[Scienceman]

sounds like your in trouble.

 

[JustinH]

No good deed goes unpunished. I would volunteer the wife to help grandma pay a shop to do it.

If anything on that car goes wrong, you are on the hook for it. Even if it is not even remotely related to the work you did.

I've learned from doing oil changes on friends cars (won't do it anymore).

Doing work on friends cars (won't touch them).

Fixing friends computers (you become the tech guy who works for free on their piece of junk $75 computer)..

Offering friends advice about their cars. (something goes wrong)

Offering advice on how to save on their utility bills (they end up getting screwed somehow)..

No good deed goes unpunished. Let grandma spend a couple of her bucks when she is older, so she doesn't have to worry about the car.

Take it to a private shop, and ask them what plugs and wires they will be using.

The best $150 you could ever spend!

 

[simple_gifts]

I did this job on my 92 LeSabre with the 3800. I thought it was one of the easier tuneups I have ever done. < 2 hour IIRC. I'd bring it to a local shop however.

 

[Captain_Klink]

take it to a private shop, let them deal with it. i used to change spark plugs, ages ago, the last one i changed would be 1988 Ford Aerostar - scraped my hands and arms up trying to get in the last tricky one. that was over 20 years ago. all i change now, is in my dodge colt, 1995, because all 4 plugs are right out in front, and it only takes 10 minutes to change all 4. otherwise, take it to the person who has done many of the tricky ones, and knows the tricks. for instance on my 3.4l chevy venture, the manual states to unbolt the engine, rotate it forward, to gain access. my mechanic just puts it up on the hoist, and goes from underneath and behind, without undoing the engine mounts. His way is a blind procedure: you cannot see anything, you have to do it by feel, but because he has done many, he can do it that way, and save me time, money, aggravation, and he does a good job, and he deserves to earn a living. if anything goes wrong, he is responsible.

 

[mechtech2]

Count on new wires. Those boots will get a tear or two.
And of course you should check the plug gap - also for internal continuity. Who knows if they were mishandled or slipped through inspection?
Don't be a gorilla, of course. Light and easy.

To get at tough plugs, a long spark plug socket with a hex end is helpful. You can use either a ratchet or a box/open end wrench on it. U-joints or U-joint sockets are also invaluable.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Count on new wires. Those boots will get a tear or two.
And of course you should check the plug gap - also for internal continuity. Who knows if they were mishandled or slipped through inspection?
Don't be a gorilla, of course. Light and easy.

To get at tough plugs, a long spark plug socket with a hex end is helpful. You can use either a ratchet or a box/open end wrench on it. U-joints or U-joint sockets are also invaluable.



You beat me - you are right on. If the op doesn't change those old plug wires with the new plugs then its wasted labor. Not to mention you do not want her coming back later when the wires go bad and complain. Based on the low usage, I wouldn't spend the money for the AC's but go with the Autolite Platinums for about $4 a piece.

 

[MrHorspwer]

If you did plugs on a V6 Chrysler minivan, the Bonneville will be a piece of cake. There's quite a bit of room between the firewall and engine to work. I'm assuming you have a good selection of tools. I find a double wobble spark plug socket with no extension works best. It's a one, maybe two, beer job.

As for which plugs to use... if it came with AC plugs from the factory, AC plugs are what I'd screw back in.

 

[mechanicx]

I don't remember how much clearance the Bonneville has. The easiest and fastest way to get to the back plugs on these setups IMO is to take the 2 front engine bracket bolts out of the 2 dog bones at the engine and pry the engine foward.

Usually there is a hole to slip the bolt through to hold the engine forward. It's just 2 easy to get to bolts and it doesn't take that much force to rotate the engine forward, even a very large screwdriver can do it.

After that it's almost easy as change the back plugs as if it were an OHC V6. It's the only way I'd do it and it's really about the only way possible on some of them.

 

[mechtech2]

That's why the dogbone has an extra hole! Those rascals!

 

[beast3300]

There's no dogbones on H body cars. Just W-body cars like mine.

 

[ls1mike]

This is how I did mine to get at the Valve Cover gaskets, which I just did last Thursday.
I should have done the plugs while I was in there.

I might add, it was nice and clean in there.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
As for which plugs to use... if it came with AC plugs from the factory, AC plugs are what I'd screw back in.


There are better plugs out there in many cases. My GM cars, I've always replaced the AC's with something else. I can't tell you how many AC's I've pulled with the "puck" missing on the plug.

 

[mechanicx]

That's an another similar way to do it, if you have the come-along or whatever to do it with. I think it's easier or at least you get a little more forward engine rotation taking the dog-bone-to-engine bolts out then slipping the bolt into the forward hole if it has one. Or you could do both. Either way it's easer than scraping your hands and arms all up trying to get into a tight spot

.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
As for which plugs to use... if it came with AC plugs from the factory, AC plugs are what I'd screw back in.


There are better plugs out there in many cases. My GM cars, I've always replaced the AC's with something else. I can't tell you how many AC's I've pulled with the "puck" missing on the plug.


I think AC plugs are generally good except for the disappearing side electrode puck, which is a big issue. I think your only real alternative is NGK/Densos. But do you know if other double platinum/iridium plugs like Champion, Autolite and NGK are suscptible to this missing side electrode puck problem? You need double pucks or tabs for the wasted spark ignition system.

 

[beast3300]

The AC's in question are made by NGK. They don't have the platinum pad falling off problem anymore.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: beast3300
The AC's in question are made by NGK. They don't have the platinum pad falling off problem anymore.


I think you are talking about the AC iridiums. They are either made by NGK or as I've seen them made by Delco from NGK components. If you get the OE AC plug for models that didn't come with iridiums they are double platinum AC Delcos, AC iridiums are not offered for those applications, and they seem to have the problem. I think for those applications you would need to get a non AC brand. A lot of the NGK's iridium or whatever aren't even double tabs.

My question was do the various brands of double platinum and double iridium replacements for AC double platinums holding on to their side electrode tab better?

 

[beast3300]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: beast3300
The AC's in question are made by NGK. They don't have the platinum pad falling off problem anymore.


I think you are talking about the AC iridiums. They are either made by NGK or as I've seen them made by Delco from NGK components. If you get the OE AC plug for models that didn't come with iridiums they are double platinum AC Delcos, AC iridiums are not offered for those applications, and they seem to have the problem. I think for those applications you would need to get a non AC brand. A lot of the NGK's iridium or whatever aren't even double tabs.

My question was do the various brands of double platinum and double iridium replacements for AC double platinums holding on to their side electrode tab better?


The AC part number I gave 41-101 is the only plug GM shows for the 3100/3400/3800 which is Iridium. I haven't seen any double platinum ACs in a long time with the platinum pads. They all seem to be Iridium.

Lately what I see (when people decide to do a tune up) are the ground strap wore like a wedge. And the center electode looks decent but the porcelain cone is pitted.

Today I pulled plugs on a 04 Town and Country with 88k miles. The center electrodes were worn into nubs. They had no sharp edges at all. The platinum either wore away or possibly fell off. I have no idea since they were very worn. The ground electrode just had an arch wore into the firing part. These of course were factory double platinum Champions.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: beast3300
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: beast3300
The AC's in question are made by NGK. They don't have the platinum pad falling off problem anymore.


I think you are talking about the AC iridiums. They are either made by NGK or as I've seen them made by Delco from NGK components. If you get the OE AC plug for models that didn't come with iridiums they are double platinum AC Delcos, AC iridiums are not offered for those applications, and they seem to have the problem. I think for those applications you would need to get a non AC brand. A lot of the NGK's iridium or whatever aren't even double tabs.

My question was do the various brands of double platinum and double iridium replacements for AC double platinums holding on to their side electrode tab better?


The AC part number I gave 41-101 is the only plug GM shows for the 3100/3400/3800 which is Iridium. I haven't seen any double platinum ACs in a long time with the platinum pads. They all seem to be Iridium.

GM '99 vin M

41-101 is not the OE plug I'm talking about. I'm talking about the ~'95-'02 or so that are usually originally 41-940 and double platinum. ACDelco does not offer iridiums for those applications, that I know of, just double platinum. You have confused the issue. I was asking if others noticed if non-OE plugs for these applications or others that have tabs on the side electrode seemed to have the same problem with the tab following off.

To be totally honest I'm not so sure if iridium plugs are completely iridium including the tabs, or just iridium cored with platinum tabs.

Quote:
Lately what I see (when people decide to do a tune up) are the ground strap wore like a wedge. And the center electode looks decent but the porcelain cone is pitted.

Today I pulled plugs on a 04 Town and Country with 88k miles. The center electrodes were worn into nubs. They had no sharp edges at all. The platinum either wore away or possibly fell off. I have no idea since they were very worn. The ground electrode just had an arch wore into the firing part. These of course were factory double platinum Champions.


I don't see that nuch with double platinums and iridiums. What I was talking about is you'll see a nearly prestine ACDelco plug at 40K, 60K, or even 80K, prestine except for the platinum tab fell off the side electrode.