88 octane unleaded without ethanol less expensive than 87 octane with ethanol?

[Rmay635703]

Wow, here in southeastern Wisconsin it is nowhere near that large of a difference.

It is if you know where to shop

Even before the pandemic I have to make a once or twice monthly trip 15 miles away, there are two stations there that sell 88e15 for up to $0.60 a gallon less than my local places sell 87 for.

I try to let my tank empty so I can get close to a full fill when I travel there.

When I go back to Wausau I try to avoid filling there because the gas is always $0.30-$1 more than when I’m in the fox valley. AKA Recently local Kwik Trip was almost $5 a gallon, well worth avoiding the area at that price.

What burns my rear is the minimum markup law is once again being used against small discount gas stations, really got to overturn that bs.

 

[grampi]

So what's better for the engine, running 1 octane higher with 15% ethanol, or 1 octane lower with 10%?

 

[MNgopher]

Define better?

If your owner manual allows it, I'd use it with few reservations.

I run it in my 2016 F150. It monitors the assumed octane of the fuel and adjusts performance appropriately. Interestingly, it turns down the performance on E15 vs E10 despite the actual octane improvement. Using regular E10 regular, midgrade, and premium, the performance goes up accordingly per this parameter.

 

[MNgopher]

It is if you know where to shop

Even before the pandemic I have to make a once or twice monthly trip 15 miles away, there are two stations there that sell 88e15 for up to $0.60 a gallon less than my local places sell 87 for.

I try to let my tank empty so I can get close to a full fill when I travel there.

When I go back to Wausau I try to avoid filling there because the gas is always $0.30-$1 more than when I’m in the fox valley. AKA Recently local Kwik Trip was almost $5 a gallon, well worth avoiding the area at that price.

What burns my rear is the minimum markup law is once again being used against small discount gas stations, really got to overturn that bs.

Same in this area - there are three or four Kwik Trips with large spreads between the 87 and 88 octane prices. Also a few Hy-vee's at times...

 

[grampi]

It's interesting when people say that they lose so much fuel economy using E10 or E15 gas.

Assuming that ethanol contributes NOTHING to the combustion process (which is not true), the most you could lose is 10% running E10 vs ethanol-free.

And the most you could lose is 5% running E15 vs E10.

I think I read somewhere that vehicles burning E85 are 30-35% less efficient than the same vehicle running on straight gasoline. I guess a person could extrapolate the numbers to figure out how much you're losing by running E10 or E15...

 

[brianl703]

Define better?

If your owner manual allows it, I'd use it with few reservations.

I've used it in a few different vehicles where the owner's manual doesn't say anything about it.

And what magically happened in the 2001 model year that made vehicles compatible with E15? Nothing, as far as I can tell.

 

[brianl703]

I think I read somewhere that vehicles burning E85 are 30-35% less efficient than the same vehicle running on straight gasoline. I guess a person could extrapolate the numbers to figure out how much you're losing by running E10 or E15...

You could figure out how much less the BTU content of a gallon of ethanol is than a gallon of gasoline. And then figure out how many BTUs less per gallon E10 or E15 is than E0.

And then figure out your expected fuel economy loss based on the BTU difference of E0 to E10 and E15.

When I ran the numbers, I came up with (going on memory here, it was years ago that I did this) about a 3% fuel economy drop going from E0 to E10. Which means there should be about a 1.5% fuel economy drop going from E10 to E15.

You could also look at the long-term fuel trims when running E10 vs E15. Or E0 vs E10 if you have E0 available where you live.

 

[MNgopher]

I've used it in a few different vehicles where the owner's manual doesn't say anything about it.

And what magically happened in the 2001 model year that made vehicles compatible with E15? Nothing, as far as I can tel

Nothing changed magically. The study done by the department of energy showed no impacts on the fueling systems or engines on a variety of vehicles 2001 and model years newer. That's it...

Interestingly, that was not the case for small engines and if my memory is correct Marine outboards - they had a lot of issues. And that's why they aren't approved to use it.

 

[brianl703]

Interestingly, that was not the case for small engines and if my memory is correct Marine outboards - they had a lot of issues. And that's why they aren't approved to use it.

Small engines and marine outboards don't (usually) have feedback fuel systems with oxygen sensors. So that's one possible reason why E15 is not approved for these.

 

[MNgopher]

Mercury marine ran a test for the department of energy on a 300 hp verado (fuel injected four stroke), a 9.9 carb four stroke and a two stroke (forgot the hp). They did a 300 hour durability test on them in pairs - one on e10, one on e15.

All of the e10 units made it through the test without issue. All three of the e15 units had major problems - different failures, but they all failed.

 

[grampi]

Is there a website that can used to find gas in a given local that contains no ethanol?

 

[jhellwig]

The 88 thing is way of saying e15 without the people that get buthurt about E-anything throwing a fit. Deceptive advertising at best. The commercials on the radio barley mentioned ethanol but went on and on about it being better for the enviroment.

Caseys is one of the few places that normally has non ethanol 87.

 

[KCJeep]

Is there a website that can used to find gas in a given local that contains no ethanol?

Yes, I believe it's called Pure Gas or something close to that.

 

[ChrisMU]

Is there a website that can used to find gas in a given local that contains no ethanol?

www.pure-gas.org There’s also an app.

 

[mjk1967]

Wow, here in southeastern Wisconsin it is nowhere near that large of a difference.

Kwik Trips around here that are within a few miles of each other, vary widely. I personally don't use E88, unless it is .25c less than 87. Just my personal choice.

 

[ARB1977]

Y’all are lucky. Can’t get E0 in north Texas.

 

[brianl703]

Y’all are lucky. Can’t get E0 in north Texas.

Before we had E10 here we had gasoline with MTBE in it. MTBE (or some other oxygenate) is required in this area by EPA regulations--since at least the mid 90s. The oil companies stopped using MTBE for liability reasons, and the replacement oxygenate was 10% ethanol.

I recall that MTBE gasoline had a unique smell. Even the smallest amounts of MTBE that get into groundwater will make it taste bad, and that is why the oil companies stopped using it.

 

[ChrisMU]

Y’all are lucky. Can’t get E0 in north Texas.

If you’re near I-35, there’s the Buc-ee’s in Melissa, TX or the Red River Co-op in Gainesville, TX. The QuikTrip chain has been expanding rapidly in Texas and May have some North Texas stations. I’m less familiar with west Texas, but a quick map check on my Pure Gas app shows a chain called “Toot n’ Totum” around Amarillo and a Murphy Express in Lubbock, as well as independent fuel companies scattered throughout that might have banker’s hours.

 

[hank2]

Almost all of the stations around my area that carry E0 charge more for it than the equivalent E10 fuel. Rutters really gouges the E0 price. 90 PON E0 is higher than 93 PON E10. The exception is at Wawa stations. Their only grade of E0 is 89 and its consistently about $.15 a gal. cheaper than the 89 that is E10. I love that part.

 

[TiGeo]

It's interesting when people say that they lose so much fuel economy using E10 or E15 gas.

Assuming that ethanol contributes NOTHING to the combustion process (which is not true), the most you could lose is 10% running E10 vs ethanol-free.

And the most you could lose is 5% running E15 vs E10.

Agreed. I run e-blends a lot in my tuned VW wagon (E20-25....so ~3 gal of E85/"Flex Fuel" to balance 93...only tuned for 93 but I benefit from the extra knock prevention that the provides especially with winter blend gas) and only see a slight drop in mpgs. Going E10 to 15? I can't believe anyone even notices this and that a car's ECU/fuelling system would be so on the edge at 10% E that going 15 would cause any drama.