83 Ford F100 300/4.9L I6; 1k miles and high wear

[psudewd]

Any UOA (used oil analysis) experts want to review and share their thoughts???

Engine fully rebuilt in 2008. I think about 15-16K miles in those 16 years since. Definitely not a daily driver.

No issues whatsoever. Runs great, good oil pressure - stock style oil pump, 50+ psi above idle, hot curb idle still has over 12+ psi @ 600rpm. No knocking, no ticking, nothing.
I just had the oil pan off and found no abnormally sloppy rods so I didn't pull any caps.

I may have had a thrust issue at time of 1st oil analysis as I was fighting a C6 to AOD swap, and don't think I had the converter spaced right.

I do run fuel additives, specifically Sta-Bil all the time ... (edit - MOD) Lately I've used Liqui-moly intake valve cleaner additive as the valves are a bit loaded up.

I don't really want to window the block but this thing *currently* gives me no troubles to 5K rpm regularly.

P.s. i have run leaded fuel (cam 2 & 100LL avgas) previously but it's been years and well before 1st analysis.

 

[Number_35]

Welcome to BITOG!

No thoughts on your engine's health (observations vs. oil analysis), but I love that shot of the engine compartment - I'm thinking how easy it would be to change the blower fan and heater core. Those inline-6 engines are a pleasure to work on.

 

[fantastic]

Very cool truck. The wear metals seems to be going down which is good. Few more 1k intervals & you should be able to go up to 2k.

 

[dnewton3]

These old skool engines are never going to wear as well as modern engines (modern materials and machining finishes). But this UOA is definitely not "normal" for even an old 4.9L ...

I doubt all that Pb is from the leaded fuels, though the residuals are probably still washing out.
Also, the Pb layer in bearings is not infinite; it may be going down because it's worn through in that area.
The other metals are definitely indicating an issue; that's just too much Fe, Cu, Tn to be ignored for 1k miles.


Con Rod bearings are not the only bearings, as you know. Mains and cams have bearings also.
Not sure what the rebuild was like, but likely something is either not sized properly, or was not aligned-bored properly.

My suggestion is to do a few quick, short OCIs with inexpensive lube. Do 200 miles and OCI. Then another. Then another. Try to get as many residuals out as possible.

Then do another 1k mile run and get a UOA.
- if the wear metals have subsided, then you're probably OK
- If the wear is still there, it's time to tear into it and find out where the root cause is.

 

[addyguy]

I think lead hangs around a lot longer than we think, I’m betting the lead is all from the additives. The rest is corrosion from sitting a lot between runs. If the engine runs strong I wouldn’t worry too much.

 

[Creekside]

My vote is cam bearings solely based on your 12-50 oil psi variation. If it's running good I would continue with a couple more analysis. Consider trying out a readily available to you 15w40 HDEO.

 

[Lubener]

I would be concerned about the oil pressure at idle. My old 4.9 has about 20-22 psi at 650 rpm hot with 10w-30 oil. Considering the wear metals at such short OCI , I would plasti-gauge the bearings.

 

[psudewd]

Welcome to BITOG!

No thoughts on your engine's health (observations vs. oil analysis), but I love that shot of the engine compartment - I'm thinking how easy it would be to change the blower fan and heater core. Those inline-6 engines are a pleasure to work on.

It really is pretty easy. Access to everything. Except maybe the starter now with headers.

 

[psudewd]

These old skool engines are never going to wear as well as modern engines (modern materials and machining finishes). But this UOA is definitely not "normal" for even an old 4.9L ...

I doubt all that Pb is from the leaded fuels, though the residuals are probably still washing out.
Also, the Pb layer in bearings is not infinite; it may be going down because it's worn through in that area.
The other metals are definitely indicating an issue; that's just too much Fe, Cu, Tn to be ignored for 1k miles.


Con Rod bearings are not the only bearings, as you know. Mains and cams have bearings also.
Not sure what the rebuild was like, but likely something is either not sized properly, or was not aligned-bored properly.

My suggestion is to do a few quick, short OCIs with inexpensive lube. Do 200 miles and OCI. Then another. Then another. Try to get as many residuals out as possible.

Then do another 1k mile run and get a UOA.
- if the wear metals have subsided, then you're probably OK
- If the wear is still there, it's time to tear into it and find out where the root cause is.

Thanks for the feedback. I had thought about "flushing" as you stated with a few oil changes just to see if anything changed. That may be my 1st course of action.

 

[psudewd]

I think lead hangs around a lot longer than we think, I’m betting the lead is all from the additives. The rest is corrosion from sitting a lot between runs. If the engine runs strong I wouldn’t worry too much.

Definitely seems to be a trend too with fuel additives and the like but I tacky didn't see any conclusive info out there. The sitting and some flash corrosion make sense as well.

 

[psudewd]

My vote is cam bearings solely based on your 12-50 oil psi variation. If it's running good I would continue with a couple more analysis. Consider trying out a readily available to you 15w40 HDEO.

Truthfully didn't think about cam bearings. Always go right to mains & rods. It is an aftermarket Comp 268H. While I do recall not being super impressed with the surface finish it wasn't horrible and the builder was good with it. I did inspect lobes while pan was off and they were mint - nothing unusual. Good news with all the lifter issues we hear about these days.

 

[demarpaint]

Probably one of the best engines ever made imo. I switched mine over to 5W40 a few years ago. Next oil on deck will the Edge Euro 0W40 A3/B4 after speaking with @Trav about it. Lead was a bit high in mine as well. I think it might help your engine.

 

[psudewd]

I would be concerned about the oil pressure at idle. My old 4.9 has about 20-22 psi at 650 rpm hot with 10w-30 oil. Considering the wear metals at such short OCI , I would plasti-gauge the bearings.

The oil pressure has been like that really since day one. Put a mechanical gauge on it at the time of rebuild and those pressures have not changed over time. I have run thinner oil in it 5w-30 or 5 &10 blended. My thoughts were the thinner oil flowing a bit faster especially on all the cold starts when it's had a long time to drain back.

 

[PontiacHO]

You mentioned issue with thrust bearing caused by converter spacing. Did you pull the main-thrust cap and inspect? There is a wide clearance somewhere considering the low oil pressure at idle. It will worsen with time. You didn’t ask but you can add some extra help with a higher zinc oil with that flat tappet cam. Comp cams aren’t known for hardened cam billets. Castrol Classic or Valvoline VR1 are solid choices. 10W40.

 

[psudewd]

My vote is cam bearings solely based on your 12-50 oil psi variation. If it's running good I would continue with a couple more analysis. Consider trying out a readily available to you 15w40 HDEO.

I mentioned to Lubener, I have historically ran thinner oil in it all this time 5w30 or 5&10w30 blended.

 

[psudewd]

You mentioned issue with thrust bearing caused by converter spacing. Did you pull the main-thrust cap and inspect? There is a wide clearance somewhere considering the low oil pressure at idle. It will worsen with time. You didn’t ask but you can add some extra help with a higher zinc oil with that flat tappet cam. Comp cams aren’t known for hardened cam billets. Castrol Classic or Valvoline VR1 are solid choices. 10W40.

No, I didn’t pull cap and check afterwards. Issue was caught quickly due to other issues with transmission swap. And as of late I have started running conventional VR1 10w30.

 

[PontiacHO]

The thrust bearing and thrust flange on the crankshaft may be an issue. Once started that wear doesn’t stop. The natural “walk” of the crank will see to that. Any chance you have enough clearance to drop the crank out of the bottom with engine in the frame? The trans could be slide back enough (driveshaft out) to get the flex plate off. Front timing cover off, cam gear off, and rod caps off. Remove all the main caps except the middle. You’ll need help to drop the crank. That wear will keep happening and it’s too nice an engine to let it go.

 

[psudewd]

The thrust bearing and thrust flange on the crankshaft may be an issue. Once started that wear doesn’t stop. The natural “walk” of the crank will see to that. Any chance you have enough clearance to drop the crank out of the bottom with engine in the frame? The trans could be slide back enough (driveshaft out) to get the flex plate off. Front timing cover off, cam gear off, and rod caps off. Remove all the main caps except the middle. You’ll need help to drop the crank. That wear will keep happening and it’s too nice an engine to let it go.

I don't know if it could be done in frame. The oil pan gasket wasn't the easiest. Had to jack the engine up a good bit. My concern with that crank even with help it's a massive chunk of iron and navigating the crossmember would be quite the task. Having to pull the trans anyways at that point I think I'd just yank the engine out. I'm not against it, I'd rather save it before something catastrophic but also don't want to start tearing into it on a snipe hunt.

 

[ka9mnx]

I don't think you are running your oil long enough to allow the additives to work (they keep getting washed away with the short OCI's).

I will say every used 4.9 I've purchased has had the rod bearings beaten out and needing replacement. I think too many owners are lugging the engine at low rpm. The auto trans models seem to hold high gear too long too (like mine).

Euro 5w-40 is the best oil I've used in my 20 years of ownership and I've experimented with everything out there.

 

[psudewd]

I don't think you are running your oil long enough to allow the additives to work (they keep getting washed away with the short OCI's).

I will say every used 4.9 I've purchased has had the rod bearings beaten out and needing replacement. I think too many owners are lugging the engine at low rpm. The auto trans models seem to hold high gear too long too (like mine).

Euro 5w-40 is the best oil I've used in my 20 years of ownership and I've experimented with everything out there.

Lugging it around definitely hasn't been an issue since it was rebuilt. Up until 3 years ago was a 3speed C6 w/ 4.10s. It does have 33" tires but even then, a quick jaunt on the interstate felt like a Nascar race. It was all balanced at time of build and never seemed to mind the RPM at all.
Much more user friendly now with OD. I'm happy to try different oils and weights, starting to conclude it may be a band-aid on a bullet wound though....