8/80 Federal Emissions Warranty

[Kuato]

OK so ...

2018 Ford Flex with about 53,000 miles. So clearly under 8 years and 80,000 miles.

Check engine light, code is showing a bad O2 sensor.

The pages I've seen, including Ford's own website, indicate that the Federal 8/80 Emissions Warranty specifically covers sensors required for proper engine operation. From what I know, O2 sensors are most definitely needed for emissions control and proper air/fuel mixture.

But Ford's representatives say that according to their database, the part is not covered. I've gone around and around with more than one repair person, and they all slavishly parrot the same thing - that if the database indicates it's not covered, it's not covered. Despite it being specifically mentioned in the Federal Warranty.

So I'm hoping someone here has some experience from either the warranty side or the repair side, or both, about this situation.

Thanks for the knowledgeable input.

edit: Am trying Ford's 800-392-3673 support line....waited a long time only to be hung up on.
(and no I wasn't abrasive, but very polite as I made the inquiry)

 

[zfasts03]

I think the O2 sensors are covered.

 

[blufeb95]

Nope, only the 3 majors are covered by the 80k warranty, the 02 sensors are only covered in the 2/24 warranty period

PDF from the EPA: https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPDF.cgi?Dockey=P100NNQH.pdf

 

[Kuato]

Great link bluefeb95; thanks for that. I see now on the Ford site that although the sensors are listed as covered, there's another section where it says they're only covered for the 2/24 you mentioned. Appreciate the insight!

Might as well follow through with Ford Customer "Service"...see if they'll do a good will repair....

 

[Kuato]

Update:

Ford's warranty specifically does cover O2 sensors, according to the representative I spoke with. It's an engine management item (air/fuel ratio) and also helps control emissions.

It may be under the 5/60 powertrain warranty, or the 8/80 but he said it should be covered; the warranty is located here:

https://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/Catalog/owner_information/2018-Ford-Car-Lt-Truck-version-5_frdwa_EN-US_01_2018_3.pdf

Page 17 is where the warranty info starts, and Page 18 contains the following:

8 years or 80,000 miles (whichever occurs first) for catalytic converters, electronic emissions control unit, and onboard emissions diagnostic devices, including the Battery Energy Control Module (BECM).

O2 sensor, he said, clearly falls under "onboard emissions diagnostic devices"

So now I can go into the stealership with the email he's sending and should be able to get the repair done under warranty.

What a headache, tired of Ford trying to dodge warranty issues on this vehicle....same dealer said that a front axle shaft was not covered under powertrain.

 

[tnt_motorsports]

This alone is a good reason to avoid new cars not to mention the depreciation.

Just my $0.02

 

[edyvw]

What state are you in?

 

[JTK]

Did the dealer get it covered for you or do you have to wait for a reimbursement through FMC?

Every vehicle I've owned states clearly in the owner's manual specifically what items are covered by the ~8/80 Federal emissions warranty.

Some of the lists are pretty extensive, especially if it's a PZEV vehicle and you live in one of the ~13 PZEV states.

The list of exactly what is covered by the fed emissions warranty is 100% specific to the make/model/year of the vehicle and the only place you're going to find it in black and white is in the vehicle's owner's manual. That *.pdf list above is a generic one from the gubment.

 

[Kuato]

What state are you in?

Aggravation due to dealer idiocy. They told me to call Ford customer service to get it covered but now that I've done so they STILL won't cover it.

Colorado is my home.

 

[Kuato]

Did the dealer get it covered for you or do you have to wait for a reimbursement through FMC?

Every vehicle I've owned states clearly in the owner's manual specifically what items are covered by the ~8/80 Federal emissions warranty.

Some of the lists are pretty extensive, especially if it's a PZEV vehicle and you live in one of the ~13 PZEV states.

The list of exactly what is covered by the fed emissions warranty is 100% specific to the make/model/year of the vehicle and the only place you're going to find it in black and white is in the vehicle's owner's manual. That *.pdf list above is a generic one from the gubment.

Thanks. As mentioned above they're not covering...apparently their database rules all.

 

[blufeb95]

I'm pretty sure "On-board diagnostics devices" only means the OBD computer and whatever it outputs to, to warn the driver of a problem, not necessarily the O2 sensors even though they are connected to the OBD computer, O2 sensors fall under "Air/Fuel Feedback Control System and Sensors"

 

[edyvw]

Aggravation due to dealer idiocy. They told me to call Ford customer service to get it covered but now that I've done so they STILL won't cover it.

Colorado is my home.

So CO is now CARB state, you should check whether CO requires separate coverage.
I know for example BMW had SULEV version of N52 engine coded N51. Anything realted to engine, including cooling system and any sensors was coming with 150k/10yrs warranty bcs. CARB.

 

[blufeb95]

Just because other states require cars be equip with CARB compliant emissions systems doesn't mean that they necessarily follow California laws regarding emissions warranties, correct?

 

[mk378]

"California emissions" became a moot point a few years ago after the EPA and CARB agreed to set the same limits on new cars. However all States may set stricter warranty laws including on emission systems.

 

[JTK]

Thanks. As mentioned above they're not covering...apparently their database rules all.

That's a bummer.

I guess because it's not printed in the manual specifically that O2 sensors are covered, even though it's implied by the wording, dealers are going to decipher it how ever they want.

What would really frost my onions is if your owner's manual DID say in black and white that O2 senors were covered, but the dealer says no because their magical data base tells all.

 

[blufeb95]

"California emissions" became a moot point a few years ago after the EPA and CARB agreed to set the same limits on new cars. However all States may set stricter warranty laws including on emission systems.

The biggest thing in states that require CARB compliant emissions systems is that when your converter dies you have to replace it with a compliant one not a cheapy aftermarket like you can get away with in other states, in a lot of states they never inspect anything, like Indiana, and you can drive a car forever with the catalyst operating below threshold and nobody will do a thing.

 

[Kuato]

Just sold the vehicle with check engine light on, for almost $2000 more than we paid for it 2 years ago.

Good riddance! 'Bye Ford

 

[Bladecutter]

So you sold a car because a $30 part went bad?
With how many different dealers there are here in Colorado that you didn't even try taking it to a different one to get service?

Okay then.

 

[Kuato]

So you sold a car because a $30 part went bad?
With how many different dealers there are here in Colorado that you didn't even try taking it to a different one to get service?

Okay then.

Nah, I didn't post everything, simply for brevity. Short version is that we checked with numerous dealers and indy mechanics. There was also something else screwy with the electronics, quick estimate (indy) said labor at least $700 to trace it.

 

[Kuato]

So you sold a car because a $30 part went bad?
With how many different dealers there are here in Colorado that you didn't even try taking it to a different one to get service?

Okay then.

And also sold due to this:

2018 Flex...warranty work at 46k?!?!

Was getting a little popcorn from the front right, turned out to be the whole hub assembly needed to be replaced....on both sides. While they were underneath they checked the PTU at my request...guess what - it's toast at only 46000 miles! "Lifetime" of the unit I guess! We got this vehicle...

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