My buddy took his 6.0 PSD(180Kmiles) in for a service because of low power and reduced fuel mileage. Since new he's run Shell Rotella 15-40 dino with OC at 7/7.5K. He tells me a well respected diesel mech told him his injector problems were due running his oil out to said oci. Mech told him regardless of what type of oil he used going over 5K would cause future injector,EGR and oil heat exchanger failure. I'm not a diesel guy but I find it hard to believe he can't go over 5K on oc's unless this is something that applies to the 6.0 only.
6.0 PSD OCI Issue
- Thread starter miata10ae
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The 6.0's are real picky about oil and how long the oil is in there. If there was an EGR or oil cooler failure then coolant and oil mixed and both the cooling and oiling systems need to be completely flushed out.
I owned a 6.0L PSD for about 18 months and THANK GOD I got rid of it and found the treasure chest I did!
6.0's are picky about oil and the OCI. There are guys going past 5k but are using synthetics, by-pass filtration and UOA. So running a dino past 5k really is not advised by most, especially without a by-pass setup or UOA.
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dnewton3
Staff member
6.0Ls are trouble prone, and no oil selection is going to stop EGR or injector issues; those are design issues.
My neighbor has run several 7.5k mile OCIs and had no issues with his 6.0L.
How about asking the mechanic who suggested this stuff about his technical explination as to WHY the oil has to be changed at 5k miles?
Could it be contamination? No - most UOAs for PSD come back with the same amount of fuel, water, silicon and insolubles as most other vehicles.
Could it be wear metals? No - most of the UOAs come back fine.
Could it be the vis? Now here is where people start to freak out. It's true that PSDs shear oil. But what a lot of people don't realize is that the 6.0 and 7.3 PSDs simply seem to prefer a lighter grade. If you feed 15w-40 into these engines, they will shear them down; it's true. But if you put in 10w-30, they pretty much stay in grade. I believe that the HEUI system simply works with a lighter grade oil, and if you don't put one in, the system will make one for you. BUT- that does not equate into greater wear, and my neighbors UOAs exhibit!
So, how is it that oil at 5k miles will save the EGR, save the oil cooler, save the injectors, but running it out to 7.5k mile is a bad decision? I'd like to see statistical proof with clear analytical data from this diesel tech.
My neighbor has run several 7.5k mile OCIs and had no issues with his 6.0L.
How about asking the mechanic who suggested this stuff about his technical explination as to WHY the oil has to be changed at 5k miles?
Could it be contamination? No - most UOAs for PSD come back with the same amount of fuel, water, silicon and insolubles as most other vehicles.
Could it be wear metals? No - most of the UOAs come back fine.
Could it be the vis? Now here is where people start to freak out. It's true that PSDs shear oil. But what a lot of people don't realize is that the 6.0 and 7.3 PSDs simply seem to prefer a lighter grade. If you feed 15w-40 into these engines, they will shear them down; it's true. But if you put in 10w-30, they pretty much stay in grade. I believe that the HEUI system simply works with a lighter grade oil, and if you don't put one in, the system will make one for you. BUT- that does not equate into greater wear, and my neighbors UOAs exhibit!
So, how is it that oil at 5k miles will save the EGR, save the oil cooler, save the injectors, but running it out to 7.5k mile is a bad decision? I'd like to see statistical proof with clear analytical data from this diesel tech.
I have a 2006 6.0 PSD with 76,000 miles on it. (not 1 problem) I run Shell 5w-40 in the winter and Amsoil 15w-40 in the summer. I run an Amsoil bybass. I believe anything past 5,000 miles on conventional oil is asking for trouble!
The injector (oil side) has pretty tight tolerences and the shuttle valves stick when cold (cold start/no power issues) if the oil has varnised.
I change my oil every 5-6000 miles because my oil pressure drops after this time period. Using synthetic with bypass is the way to go on the 6.0 PSD. You have to take care of them!
The injector (oil side) has pretty tight tolerences and the shuttle valves stick when cold (cold start/no power issues) if the oil has varnised.
I change my oil every 5-6000 miles because my oil pressure drops after this time period. Using synthetic with bypass is the way to go on the 6.0 PSD. You have to take care of them!
me & dnewton have been involved in many of these threads over the past couple of years, so i'll add my .02 cents.
over in the uoa section are a few of my samples of my 07 6.0, all were run to 7500 mi on the deere plus 50(15w-40 & 10w-30) with excellent results, the truck now has 99,910 mi. now with the only issue a bad injector o-ring. the only sub-par sample i have had was with rts 5w-40 (CI-4+) it sheared terribly compared to the plus 50.
i am now running the 10w-30 for the second run @ 7500 mi. there is absolutely no reason these engines can't be run out to 7500 mi. on quality oil. i also had an 04 6.0 prior to my 07 with 0 injector or any other oil related issues, my uoa's have proven this to me.
for a coulpe of winters i was doing what many do, switching to 5w-40, after the uoa came back bad, twice, i made the switch to the deere 10w-30, and after the first run and excellent uoa, i have made the decision to run the 10w-30 year 'round, with another uoa coming within a couple of months.
i'll post after i recieve it.
the most important oil related maintainence issue with the 6.0, other than changing the oil of course is using the correct filter(motorcraft/international/racor, and some frams)
over in the uoa section are a few of my samples of my 07 6.0, all were run to 7500 mi on the deere plus 50(15w-40 & 10w-30) with excellent results, the truck now has 99,910 mi. now with the only issue a bad injector o-ring. the only sub-par sample i have had was with rts 5w-40 (CI-4+) it sheared terribly compared to the plus 50.
i am now running the 10w-30 for the second run @ 7500 mi. there is absolutely no reason these engines can't be run out to 7500 mi. on quality oil. i also had an 04 6.0 prior to my 07 with 0 injector or any other oil related issues, my uoa's have proven this to me.
for a coulpe of winters i was doing what many do, switching to 5w-40, after the uoa came back bad, twice, i made the switch to the deere 10w-30, and after the first run and excellent uoa, i have made the decision to run the 10w-30 year 'round, with another uoa coming within a couple of months.
i'll post after i recieve it.
the most important oil related maintainence issue with the 6.0, other than changing the oil of course is using the correct filter(motorcraft/international/racor, and some frams)
I pretty much stick to 5K OCIs on my '04 6.0 van, which just cracked 201,000 mi. today. I had numerous problems early on, one of the biggest was the injector control sensor & harness assembly (ICP sensor)-it would cause bad mileage, rough running, and sudden LUNGES forward at idle (much quicker than it would ever take off normally). My 6.0 has ALWAYS had problems controlling the fuel, especially with dino 15W40 oil-only by running synthetic 5W40 would the cold start chugging/misfiring & clouds of unburnt fuel below 50F go away. It even blew a head gasket on one bank w/less than 50K on it (IMHO caused by poor fuel control). I stick with the 5K changes because, frankly, I'm not paying for it, and I like having a variable-vane turbo that spools the way it's supposed to.
Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
me & dnewton have been involved in many of these threads over the past couple of years, so i'll add my .02 cents.
over in the uoa section are a few of my samples of my 07 6.0, all were run to 7500 mi on the deere plus 50(15w-40 & 10w-30) with excellent results, the truck now has 99,910 mi. now with the only issue a bad injector o-ring. the only sub-par sample i have had was with rts 5w-40 (CI-4+) it sheared terribly compared to the plus 50.
i am now running the 10w-30 for the second run @ 7500 mi. there is absolutely no reason these engines can't be run out to 7500 mi. on quality oil. i also had an 04 6.0 prior to my 07 with 0 injector or any other oil related issues, my uoa's have proven this to me.
for a coulpe of winters i was doing what many do, switching to 5w-40, after the uoa came back bad, twice, i made the switch to the deere 10w-30, and after the first run and excellent uoa, i have made the decision to run the 10w-30 year 'round, with another uoa coming within a couple of months.
i'll post after i recieve it.
the most important oil related maintainence issue with the 6.0, other than changing the oil of course is using the correct filter(motorcraft/international/racor, and some frams)
That's good info to know! I'm a hugh fan of John Deere! I have a 64 hp. 5303 Utility tractor with a 512 Loader.
I have noticed in the tractor that it loves Shell or Schaffer's 5W-40. I have noticed a remarkable difference in how fast the oil pressure raises on the synthetic vs. convential oils mainly the 15w-40 types. REAL oil pressure gauge.
That's why I love it in my PSD. I monitor oil pressure (in cab)with a REAL oil pressure gauge and notice the synthetic works better in the PSD too.
I use the John Deere fluids when I can and I feel they do have some top shelf lubricants.
me & dnewton have been involved in many of these threads over the past couple of years, so i'll add my .02 cents.
over in the uoa section are a few of my samples of my 07 6.0, all were run to 7500 mi on the deere plus 50(15w-40 & 10w-30) with excellent results, the truck now has 99,910 mi. now with the only issue a bad injector o-ring. the only sub-par sample i have had was with rts 5w-40 (CI-4+) it sheared terribly compared to the plus 50.
i am now running the 10w-30 for the second run @ 7500 mi. there is absolutely no reason these engines can't be run out to 7500 mi. on quality oil. i also had an 04 6.0 prior to my 07 with 0 injector or any other oil related issues, my uoa's have proven this to me.
for a coulpe of winters i was doing what many do, switching to 5w-40, after the uoa came back bad, twice, i made the switch to the deere 10w-30, and after the first run and excellent uoa, i have made the decision to run the 10w-30 year 'round, with another uoa coming within a couple of months.
i'll post after i recieve it.
the most important oil related maintainence issue with the 6.0, other than changing the oil of course is using the correct filter(motorcraft/international/racor, and some frams)
That's good info to know! I'm a hugh fan of John Deere! I have a 64 hp. 5303 Utility tractor with a 512 Loader.
I have noticed in the tractor that it loves Shell or Schaffer's 5W-40. I have noticed a remarkable difference in how fast the oil pressure raises on the synthetic vs. convential oils mainly the 15w-40 types. REAL oil pressure gauge.
That's why I love it in my PSD. I monitor oil pressure (in cab)with a REAL oil pressure gauge and notice the synthetic works better in the PSD too.
I use the John Deere fluids when I can and I feel they do have some top shelf lubricants.
dnewton3
Staff member
Originally Posted By: 1OilLover
I have a 2006 6.0 PSD with 76,000 miles on it. (not 1 problem) I run Shell 5w-40 in the winter and Amsoil 15w-40 in the summer. I run an Amsoil bybass. I believe anything past 5,000 miles on conventional oil is asking for trouble!
The injector (oil side) has pretty tight tolerences and the shuttle valves stick when cold (cold start/no power issues) if the oil has varnised.
I change my oil every 5-6000 miles because my oil pressure drops after this time period. Using synthetic with bypass is the way to go on the 6.0 PSD. You have to take care of them!
Synthetics AND bypass with a 6k mile OCI? What a waste of money ...
Your oil pressure drops after 5-6k miles? Does that coincide with a drop is viscosity? Have you ever done UOAs both before and after, to confirm WHY your pressure drops? I suspect it's the shearing. Which, as I've covered already, the effects of which are grossly overblown. Even when the oil shears, the wear metals typically seem to stay well in an acceptable range.
What advice do you have for the few people that run fluids and bypass filters out to 30k, 40k, 50k+ miles? Are you suggesting that they are not taking good care of their vehicles? Additionally, there are LOTS of 6.0 PSDs that even run dino oil at 7.5k miles and don't have issues. And the issues they do have are not due to OCI duration.
Most of the guys that I have talked to, if they can get out of the "must have 15w-40" mentality, have had great success with 10w-30 year round. The HEUI seems to prefer that grade; the "winter romp" is especially quieted down and starting is much better overall, year round.
Let's remember that pressure is both a good and bad thing. Too little pressue means parts are not floating on a hydrodynamic wedge of oil; too much oil means there is greater resistance than necessary, indicating a concern for poor oil flow. In a lube system, pressure is a result of the RESISTANCE to flow. If you're so concerned about the injectors working properly, I'd think you might have success with a lighter grade.
BTW - the injector has two oil sides; it uses pressure to both open and close the mechanism in the 6.0L engines. The old 7.3L PSD used oil on one side and spring pressure on the other. There are tight tolerance of both sides. The "sticking" issue perplexed Ford for quite some time. I've seen many guys go through several re-flashes to have the injectors do all kinds of funny things, from the older "buzzing" (cycling) after shut down, to the most current "stiction" warm up cycle.
Further, there isn't a bypass filter known to man that will eliminate varnish; that is the discoloration of the engine surfaces from the oil's trace elements. It is generally agreed that light varnish hurts nothing. (Sludge is a different matter, to be sure, but PSDs are not known to sludge.) I cannot personally attest to heavy varnish being an issue inside the HEUI injector; I've never had one apart myself. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't see the logic to this comment. You said "if the oil has varnised"; my point is that oil itself does not varnish; the metal surfaces might.
I'm not so much discounting your experiences, but I do question your logic in the "whys" and "wherefores".
I have a 2006 6.0 PSD with 76,000 miles on it. (not 1 problem) I run Shell 5w-40 in the winter and Amsoil 15w-40 in the summer. I run an Amsoil bybass. I believe anything past 5,000 miles on conventional oil is asking for trouble!
The injector (oil side) has pretty tight tolerences and the shuttle valves stick when cold (cold start/no power issues) if the oil has varnised.
I change my oil every 5-6000 miles because my oil pressure drops after this time period. Using synthetic with bypass is the way to go on the 6.0 PSD. You have to take care of them!
Synthetics AND bypass with a 6k mile OCI? What a waste of money ...
Your oil pressure drops after 5-6k miles? Does that coincide with a drop is viscosity? Have you ever done UOAs both before and after, to confirm WHY your pressure drops? I suspect it's the shearing. Which, as I've covered already, the effects of which are grossly overblown. Even when the oil shears, the wear metals typically seem to stay well in an acceptable range.
What advice do you have for the few people that run fluids and bypass filters out to 30k, 40k, 50k+ miles? Are you suggesting that they are not taking good care of their vehicles? Additionally, there are LOTS of 6.0 PSDs that even run dino oil at 7.5k miles and don't have issues. And the issues they do have are not due to OCI duration.
Most of the guys that I have talked to, if they can get out of the "must have 15w-40" mentality, have had great success with 10w-30 year round. The HEUI seems to prefer that grade; the "winter romp" is especially quieted down and starting is much better overall, year round.
Let's remember that pressure is both a good and bad thing. Too little pressue means parts are not floating on a hydrodynamic wedge of oil; too much oil means there is greater resistance than necessary, indicating a concern for poor oil flow. In a lube system, pressure is a result of the RESISTANCE to flow. If you're so concerned about the injectors working properly, I'd think you might have success with a lighter grade.
BTW - the injector has two oil sides; it uses pressure to both open and close the mechanism in the 6.0L engines. The old 7.3L PSD used oil on one side and spring pressure on the other. There are tight tolerance of both sides. The "sticking" issue perplexed Ford for quite some time. I've seen many guys go through several re-flashes to have the injectors do all kinds of funny things, from the older "buzzing" (cycling) after shut down, to the most current "stiction" warm up cycle.
Further, there isn't a bypass filter known to man that will eliminate varnish; that is the discoloration of the engine surfaces from the oil's trace elements. It is generally agreed that light varnish hurts nothing. (Sludge is a different matter, to be sure, but PSDs are not known to sludge.) I cannot personally attest to heavy varnish being an issue inside the HEUI injector; I've never had one apart myself. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't see the logic to this comment. You said "if the oil has varnised"; my point is that oil itself does not varnish; the metal surfaces might.
I'm not so much discounting your experiences, but I do question your logic in the "whys" and "wherefores".
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I have a '05 F-350 I bought new 57K miles. Pull heavy several times/year.
I run Ford filters with Schaffer 5W-40 9000.
I change the oil between 7.5K-10K miles.
No issues, UOAs are OK. 10K OCI for me is the limit.
Just facts.... no "hear say".
I run Ford filters with Schaffer 5W-40 9000.
I change the oil between 7.5K-10K miles.
No issues, UOAs are OK. 10K OCI for me is the limit.
Just facts.... no "hear say".
Originally Posted By: RichR
Originally Posted By: FiremarshalRob
I owned a 6.0L PSD for about 18 months and THANK GOD I got rid of it and found the treasure chest I did!
What kind of box do you keep yer treasure in Matey?
I'll post some pics of it soon!
Originally Posted By: FiremarshalRob
I owned a 6.0L PSD for about 18 months and THANK GOD I got rid of it and found the treasure chest I did!
What kind of box do you keep yer treasure in Matey?
I'll post some pics of it soon!
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