Using Penzoil Plat Euro LX 0W-30 in my out of warranty 1.8L 2ZR-FE. She loves it.
5W30 In ‘20 Corolla 1.8L ?
- Thread starter ChrisD46
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Can you not get 0w20? The engine can operate fine on 0w20,what questions of doubt is there?
My Toyota is allergic to 30.
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If a bad bs “ dollar store brand “ 5w30 jacked up a motor under warranty… What if that same dollar store sold Welfare 0w20 ??
It would do the SAME exact thing…
Come on… 0w20 can be no good either …
If it’s made by an illegitimate oil blender.
And for the record… In the last 5 years I have never seen a PQIA bad oil in a dollar store.
Dollar General did have trouble back beyond that time frame. Fair enough.
Gas stations.. Yeah I have seen some of those extremely bad oils in a few of those. One in Hopewell Va, one store in Wakefield Va, and one just 2 miles west of me in James City county.
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Good luck…
Using a higher HTHS oil with the proper API and possibly even Dexos approved additives in that oil…
Let them try to argue in a truly “ scientific “ manner that somehow blew up or caused a motor failure…
They won’t be able to argue on any scientific or reasonable way to win that case. No way…
Unless an oil has no additive package present after a UOA test is done on it and the viscosity is way, way out of specification … aka like straight STP or even way thicker than that… or a oil was used with a grossly inappropriate W winter rating for those expected low temperature conditions … Then in either of those two instances a solid case can be made.
But a difference of a HTHS of 2.5 versus 3.1 and that oil with a HTHS of 3.1 has the normal expected amount of additives present… There is no way for them to win that case. Zero. Not happening.
delete.
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I've been using 5w30 Supertech synthetic in my 2012 Corolla since new (almost 12 years now). No issues, didn't expect any.
There is plenty of sub par oil out there to fool folks who know nothing about cars.
Fun fact there is no 0w20 Welfare brand probably because they know that is an obvious red flag. There are however some questionable 5w20's and plenty of 5w30 that yes exist in dollar stores/minimarts/gas stations in more unfortunate areas of the country.
https://pqia.org/passenger-car-motor-oil/
Going to AutoZone and paying $5 for a qt. of decent conventional vs. $2 oil whatever is a big deal for some people.
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2020 Toyota Camry. Dumped the 0w16 at 500 miles filled with ESP 0w30 change at 5,000 miles. Car has 90,000 miles. The owners manual for outside of USA states you can use 0w16 to 15w40. Says 0w16 is for fuel economy only.
I don’t live in a “ unfortunate area”…
Extremely the opposite in fact… That BP station 2 miles west of me is sandwiched between two of the largest and most expensive neighborhoods in this region… One of those big time expensive neighborhoods has one of its gated entrances only 1 mile north of that BP has station. You do not have to be in a “unfortunate area “ to have people having bad oils on their shelves.
Hate to tell ya but someone’s going to make a welfare 0w20…. Human beings are going to do that. . I haven’t been to those gas stations in awhile but I would be little shocked to see a illegitimate 0w20 on the shelf…
Again….
I have actually gone into DG and another Dollar store in my area….
Zero illegitimate oils there… Zero.
And even 5 years ago when DG had a few API SF oils… They were like 3 varieties of those…. The rest which were 15 legit oils… Valvoline, Pennzoil, Peak, Castrol… The vast majority were legit API SN and some were Dexos approved too.
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100%. Rest of World manual oil charts are written by Toyota Engineers. US manual oil charts are written by CAFE. It really is that simple.
I'm in Texas and my 2017 GX460 (4.6L 1UR-FE) is "rated" for 0w-20, but absolutely runs smoother on Castrol Edge Ti 5w-30 and Penzzoil UP 5w-30. Additional benefit: oil consumption drops to zero over a 5k OCI, vs about 1qt on TGMO. My cats say they want to buy me a beer....dunno what that is about but, Okay.
Patman
Staff member
After all these years I'm still surprised that long term members here are still trying to say that thinner oils are just for CAFE reasons only and that you need thicker oils to get long engine life. That's nonsense! Have you guys not learned anything here? First of all, we've seen a trend towards thinner oils for many decades now, but yet are you seeing engines dying early? No. The key is that the thinner oils are using a different anti wear package (more moly and more boron typically) in order to make up for that lower viscosity, so they can still protect your engine just as well as the thicker oils. There are way too many people here that think they know better than the engineers that designed these engines. And I know what they'll say to try to counter that, they'll say that car manufacturers only want engines to last just beyond the warranty period and nothing more, so the thinner oils are just enough to get there. That's also wrong. What manufacturer would actually want their engines to just barely make it that far? They are not likely to get repeat customers if that were to occur. Why do you think Toyota and Honda have so many repeat customers for instance? Because their engines last, and guess what? They are the ones that have been using thinner oils a lot more than other manufacturers. And it hasn't hurt their longevity one bit.
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Then why are thinner oils spec'd for the US CAFE market than in the owner's manuals for those same engines in non-CAFE markets for overlapping temperature ranges?
I disagree with you that these OEMs care about absolute maximum service life anymore. The reality is that most vehicles don't make it to 300,000 for one reason or another (rust, accidents, neglect, etc) so the OEMs are better off tailoring things to the realistic service expectation versus the ultimate service life possible. It shows. Honda isn't even what they were twenty years ago.
Patman
Staff member
The main reason for thicker oils being specified overseas is because people over there simply haven't accepted thinner oils (like a lot of people on here!) and they simply aren't readily available to them.
And I disagree about Honda not being what they were twenty years ago. I have a 10th gen Civic (2016-2021) and in the groups that I belong to there are quite a few of these cars with insanely high mileage on them (one in particular that's over 700,000 miles) My Civic has been flawless, I haven't spent a dime in repairs. So I see no evidence that they've lost any quality or reliability whatsoever.
And Hondas and Toyotas aren't rusting out like they used to in the 70s and 80s, so we're definitely seeing more of them going on and on and not going to an early grave with a perfect engine. We're getting to see just how long those engines really can last when the body is more durable.
And I disagree about Honda not being what they were twenty years ago. I have a 10th gen Civic (2016-2021) and in the groups that I belong to there are quite a few of these cars with insanely high mileage on them (one in particular that's over 700,000 miles) My Civic has been flawless, I haven't spent a dime in repairs. So I see no evidence that they've lost any quality or reliability whatsoever.
And Hondas and Toyotas aren't rusting out like they used to in the 70s and 80s, so we're definitely seeing more of them going on and on and not going to an early grave with a perfect engine. We're getting to see just how long those engines really can last when the body is more durable.
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How are 0W-20 oils not readily available to the rest of the world by now if the trend toward thinner oils is decades old? In decades they haven't been able to justify thinner oils on shelves somewhere?
People in the US aren't/weren't ready to accept 0W-16 either, but here we are, because the OEM recommendations drive what hits the shelves, not what the customer thinks.
People in the US aren't/weren't ready to accept 0W-16 either, but here we are, because the OEM recommendations drive what hits the shelves, not what the customer thinks.
Patman
Staff member
I can't answer as to why other countries haven't accepted the thinner oils, but that fact doesn't negate what we're seeing over here. And that's that engines are simply not dying prematurely due to these oils.
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asking out of genuine curiosity here, would the use of heavier oils cause permanent damage though?
My friend, if you believe everything you read on BITOG, then I've got some bad news for you......
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I personally (and I think I speak for the other "thickies" here when I say this too) place a slightly higher film thickness above the borderline unmeasureable gain in fuel efficiency. I understand what you're saying about anti-wear additives making up the difference, and I used to feel that same way. But it's like, why even have to lean on an anti-wear pack when I can increase MOFT, which is the primary driver of what keeps metal on metal contact from occurring in the first place?
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