5W30 In ‘20 Corolla 1.8L ?

[gfh77665]

The main reason for thicker oils being specified overseas is because people over there simply haven't accepted thinner oils (like a lot of people on here!) and they simply aren't readily available to them.

There is no end to what people overseas "have to accept", but you think that excludes certain oil viscosities? Don't you think global vehicle manufactures would prefer to have one standard viscosity worldwide? Sorry, but CAFE force fed the USA (and Canada) thin oils. Its that simple.

 

[gfh77665]

How are 0W-20 oils not readily available to the rest of the world by now if the trend toward thinner oils is decades old? In decades they haven't been able to justify thinner oils on shelves somewhere?

People in the US aren't/weren't ready to accept 0W-16 either, but here we are, because the OEM recommendations drive what hits the shelves, not what the customer thinks.

Thank you for thinking! Its a dying art!

 

[Patman]

asking out of genuine curiosity here, would the use of heavier oils cause permanent damage though?

I'm not saying that it would cause permanent damage, just that it's not necessary to run thicker oils in order to get long engine life. That being said, if you're running 5w30 in -20F weather instead of 0w20, you're not doing your engine any favors there.

 

[Patman]

I personally (and I think I speak for the other "thickies" here when I say this too) place a slightly higher film thickness above the borderline unmeasureable gain in fuel efficiency. I understand what you're saying about anti-wear additives making up the difference, and I used to feel that same way. But it's like, why even have to lean on an anti-wear pack when I can increase MOFT, which is the primary driver of what keeps metal on metal contact from occurring in the first place?

And how do you know that the thicker oil is going to protect that engine any better? Have you personally tested it with a thicker oil and torn it down? Everyone here is just speculating about running thicker oils, but yet the ones doing actual testing (engineers) are the ones making viscosity recommendations. I'd trust them over "some dude on the internet"

 

[gfh77665]

I have always thought its easy to generally tailor the viscosity used to the climate one is in. For a quick, general example, 10w-30 across southern US, 5w-30 across mid America, 5-20 or 0-20 northern tier of US and all of Canada. Something like that.

 

[Patman]

There is no end to what people overseas "have to accept", but you think that excludes certain oil viscosities? Don't you think global vehicle manufactures would prefer to have one standard viscosity worldwide? Sorry, but CAFE force fed the USA (and Canada) thin oils. Its that simple.

Sure, in the beginning the push for thinner oils was driven by fuel economy, however that doesn't mean that car makers and oil companies haven't found ways to improve and adapt accordingly. It's not 1970 anymore, we don't need 15w40 and we don't need 3000 mile oil changes.

 

[gfh77665]

I don't think we need 15w-40 or 3000 mile intervals either.

 

[cheesepuffs2]

And how do you know that the thicker oil is going to protect that engine any better? Have you personally tested it with a thicker oil and torn it down? Everyone here is just speculating about running thicker oils, but yet the ones doing actual testing (engineers) are the ones making viscosity recommendations. I'd trust them over "some dude on the internet"

The engineers are not the ones making the viscosity recommendations. CAFE is the one behind the viscosity recommendations. When the engineers are allowed to make the recommendations without CAFE intervention, like they do in other markets, they publish thicker viscosities while in North American manuals they list one thin oil weight for all temps.

 

[cheesepuffs2]

I don't think we need 15w-40 or 3000 mile intervals either.

Me neither, that's just changing the goal posts here.

 

[Rogueman2016s]

Blame Japan aren’t these ultra thin oils from that way of the world 0w16 & 0w8 they been toying with those for sometime while we were being introduced to 0w20. I accepted 5w20 back when I got my 2008 Hyundai sonata and I thought that was thin then as I ventured into the world of Toyota with 0w20 and have now accepted 0w20 but as we go thinner I don’t exactly know what they’re shooting for. It does seem to just squeeze that extra tenth of a mpg on a roller dyno . You’ll never see it in real world driving

 

[supton]

I have always thought its easy to generally tailor the viscosity used to the climate one is in. For a quick, general example, 10w-30 across southern US, 5w-30 across mid America, 5-20 or 0-20 northern tier of US and all of Canada. Something like that.

How many engines are being made now without some sort of coolant-oil heat exchanger? OEM’s “need” all the fluids good and hot to be thin. But heat flows both ways, so, for most drivers, isn’t motor oil in modern engines sitting around coolant temp for much of their driving?

 

[cheesepuffs2]

Blame Japan aren’t these ultra thin oils from that way of the world 0w16 & 0w8 they been toying with those for sometime while we were being introduced to 0w20. I accepted 5w20 back when I got my 2008 Hyundai sonata and I thought that was thin then as I ventured into the world of Toyota with 0w20 and have now accepted 0w20 but as we go thinner I don’t exactly know what they’re shooting for. It does seem to just squeeze that extra tenth of a mpg on a roller dyno . You’ll never see it in real world driving

Great point, and important context here.

In Japan, they have an inspection process that ultimately serves as a disincentive for keeping a car for a long time. This is why the rest of the world has plenty of exported JDM cars to choose from.

https://garagedreams.net/car-facts/why-do-used-japanese-cars-have-such-low-mileage

So in a car market that favors new vehicles, that is more of a driver to push thinner and thinner oils for the fuel economy push, even if it were to sacrifice maximum engine life, since these cars are basically thrown away before it would matter.

 

[bbhero]

I'm not saying that it would cause permanent damage, just that it's not necessary to run thicker oils in order to get long engine life. That being said, if you're running 5w30 in -20F weather instead of 0w20, you're not doing your engine any favors there.

A 5w30 can be just fine in -20F… A 10w is ok down to -13F.

Now -30 or colder one should go to a 0w.

There is no realistic scientific argument to be made that a legitimate made API higher HTHS motor oil at operating temperatures will cause any problem.

 

[Patman]

A 5w30 can be just fine in -20F… A 10w is ok down to -13F.

It might be "fine" but I would certainly rather be running 0w20 in mine.

 

[Rogueman2016s]

How many engines are being made now without some sort of coolant-oil heat exchanger? OEM’s “need” all the fluids good and hot to be thin. But heat flows both ways, so, for most drivers, isn’t motor oil in modern engines sitting around coolant temp for much of their driving?

Truly modern marvels. Fluids are thinner for moving parts to have less drag one would think temps would be higher but with less drag better machining increases efficiency with the use of thinner long life fluids. Engines warm up quicker emission controls work more efficiently.

 

[Patman]

Great point, and important context here.

In Japan, they have an inspection process that ultimately serves as a disincentive for keeping a car for a long time. This is why the rest of the world has plenty of exported JDM cars to choose from.

https://garagedreams.net/car-facts/why-do-used-japanese-cars-have-such-low-mileage

So in a car market that favors new vehicles, that is more of a driver to push thinner and thinner oils for the fuel economy push, even if it were to sacrifice maximum engine life, since these cars are basically thrown away before it would matter.

OK, how about this, show me some evidence that shows that thinner oils are causing engines to wear out sooner.

 

[Fredxt]

IMO, a car manufacturer can void engine warranty on the basis of a condition like the fallowing in the "What is not covered" section:
"Lack of or improper maintenance, including use of fluids other than those specified in the Owner’s Manual"
Now, whether any manufacturer has ever voided any commodity car warranty because of a higher grade oil, I haven't heard of that, but it doesn't mean it's not possible. Even MMWA documents has a "What is not covered" section in their sample contracts.

 

[supton]

Truly modern marvels. Fluids are thinner for moving parts to have less drag one would think temps would be higher but with less drag better machining increases efficiency with the use of thinner long life fluids. Engines warm up quicker emission controls work more efficiently.

Wouldn’t thicker oil have higher drag? harder to pump, sliding parts then have more friction.

I’m noticing my new corolla is a bit slow on heating up, actually. I don’t trust the idiot gauge that much, but it can take quite a bit of driving to get it to the normal mark. It’s pretty strange, and unexpected.

 

[gfh77665]

OK, how about this, show me some evidence that shows that thinner oils are causing engines to wear out sooner.

Thats a perfect example of a "straw man" argument. Its another version of "So you are claiming cars are blowing up because of thin oils?"

Someone could then counter with "show me evidence that thicker oils are not protecting better". Word games.

 

[gfh77665]

It might be "fine" but I would certainly rather be running 0w20 in mine.

I agree with you. You live in Ontario. 0w-20 probably is the optimal viscosity for you. Where I live 10w-30 is an awesome choice.

Reasonable people should easily realize while vehicles do come off the same production line, vastly different climates are a factor in optimal viscosities. Not the only factor, but a factor.