It may simply be that when the engines were designed, really good 5-20 oils didn't exist. Now that they do, the engineers can safely recommend them for engines originally requiring a slightly heavier oil.
5W20 in engines calling for 5W30
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I note that you live in Jeffersonville, IN - about a stones throw from KY.
I would guess you seldom see a -0- degree day much less a -20 degree day.
Looks to me like a "near perfect" application for 5w30 motor oil.
While 5w20 would probably function just fine in the winter (at least) it is unclear what advantage the change to 5w20 would give you.
I would guess you seldom see a -0- degree day much less a -20 degree day.
Looks to me like a "near perfect" application for 5w30 motor oil.
While 5w20 would probably function just fine in the winter (at least) it is unclear what advantage the change to 5w20 would give you.
Ugly3 you are right about the weather here. Owners manual says 10w30 can be used above 0 so I can pretty much use it year round. It does get real hot and humid during the summer. Typical Midwest weather. Thanks again to all the responses. A lot of information to pick through. Oh well it'll give me something to do while the wife's cutting the grass and washing my car.
The only thing I can find in common on back-recommended Ford engines is roller cams. For flat tappet cam engines, Ford still recommends 5/10w30. I suspect that the lower viscosity of the 20 weight causes increased cam/lifter wear on flat tappet engines. Not a problem on roller cam engines, though.
I was surprised to learn that 20 weight oils are nothing new, they just disappeared for a while. The owners manual in our 1972 Ford C-650 fire truck with a 391 gasser recommends 20w20 in winter and straight 30 or 40 in warmer seasons.
Well, I've been wavering back and forth as to whether I should switch from M1 XW-30 that's been coursing through my '98 5.4L for the past 45000 miles. Seeing as others are having such good results with the XW-20's, I think I will switch to M1 0W-20 when it comes time to change again in early December, and then MC 5W-20 next spring. The UOA data speaks for itself.
The wear on my aspire (uoa in the proper section) was a short one (2k miles). Wear wasn't super high, but it wasn't super low either.
I own a 03 f-150 5.4l,that calls for 5w20. I use M1 5w30 and engine runs great!!! This winter I will use M1 0w30 (nov.-feb.) for better cold starting protection.
Let me repost in a different way .
Look at the rebuild specs 4.6 vs 302 " 5.0 "
Look at end play specs both motors
Look at oil pressure specs both motors , one will be with hot 8.8 cSt oil , the other with hot 11.5 cSt oil . Look at the RPM recommendation of testing oil pressure .
Look at bearing metalurgy differences in both engines .
Then when all else fails look for superceded part numbers for oil pumps no longer made and what pressure both bypassed at .
The 4.6 was originally tight by design making it ripe for 20wt AND the bearings used . I have posted links to the why's of bi-metal bearing vs trimetal and quad metal bearings . Search and put 2+2 together
427Z06 had some very good posts and links here as well . Search his user number too would be a suggestion .
BTW , Chrysler uses bimetal bearings in some of their engines now . I really think all the new Chrysler engines will use them in the ones calling for 20wt because of the above but I will not search and repost the links to advantages and disadvantages of the different bearings , wt and filtering of the engine oil .
Asian engines are well on their way to the use of these bearings now and the Euro engines are right behind them per media on the internet .
Plasma bearings have been used in certain Euro cars for a few years now .
Posting here sometimes if one leaves a T not crossed or an i not dotted leads to needless controversy .
Look at the rebuild specs 4.6 vs 302 " 5.0 "
Look at end play specs both motors
Look at oil pressure specs both motors , one will be with hot 8.8 cSt oil , the other with hot 11.5 cSt oil . Look at the RPM recommendation of testing oil pressure .
Look at bearing metalurgy differences in both engines .
Then when all else fails look for superceded part numbers for oil pumps no longer made and what pressure both bypassed at .
The 4.6 was originally tight by design making it ripe for 20wt AND the bearings used . I have posted links to the why's of bi-metal bearing vs trimetal and quad metal bearings . Search and put 2+2 together
BTW , Chrysler uses bimetal bearings in some of their engines now . I really think all the new Chrysler engines will use them in the ones calling for 20wt because of the above but I will not search and repost the links to advantages and disadvantages of the different bearings , wt and filtering of the engine oil .
Asian engines are well on their way to the use of these bearings now and the Euro engines are right behind them per media on the internet .
Plasma bearings have been used in certain Euro cars for a few years now .
Posting here sometimes if one leaves a T not crossed or an i not dotted leads to needless controversy .
I would NOT do it and it does not matter to me in the least how one using a 5w-20 out of application looked in analysis .
The variables are many to include fuel dillution along with the fact some 5w-20's shear down to a low 7.2 cST at the end of the interval . Factor in some fuel , the need to stomp the gas pedal to get to cruise speed along with the fact 5w-20's " dino " do not offer any better winter performance than a well made 5w-30 " dino " it's just too dangerous . Just look at the data sheets of new oil .
Fueled up from winter driving 5w-30's just go down to 9.2 or so leaving approximately 2 full cSt's margin for protection .
You guys can experiment if you want though . I seldom buy used cars so the likelyhood ......
Here's the latest Ford TSB:
Article No.
02-1-9 a.. ENGINE - ENGINE OIL - RECOMMENDED APPLICATIONS FOR SAE
5W-20 AND SAE 5W-30 MOTOR OILS - GASOLINE AND FLEXIBLE FUEL VEHICLES ONLY
Publication Date: JANUARY 14, 2002
FORD: 1992-2002 CROWN VICTORIA
1993-94 TEMPO
1993-97 THUNDERBIRD
1993-2002 ESCORT, MUSTANG, TAURUS
1995-2000 CONTOUR
1998-2002 ESCORT ZX2
2000-2002 FOCUS
1993-96 BRONCO
1993-97 AEROSTAR
1993-2002 E SERIES, F-150, RANGER
1995-2002 WINDSTAR
1997-99 F-250 LD
1997-2001 EXPLORER
1997-2002 EXPEDITION
1999-2002 SUPER DUTY F SERIES, SUPER DUTY F-53 STRIPPED CHAS.
2000-2002 EXCURSION
2001-2002 ESCAPE
LINCOLN: 1991-2002 TOWN CAR
1993-98 MARK VIII
1993-2002 CONTINENTAL
2000-2002 LS
1998-2002 NAVIGATOR
MERCURY: 1992-2002 GRAND MARQUIS
1993-94 TOPAZ
1993-97 COUGAR
1993-99 TRACER
1993-2002 SABLE
1995-2000 MYSTIQUE
1999-2002 COUGAR
1997-2001 MOUNTAINEER
This article is being republished in its entirety to update the vehicle
models, engines and years affected.
NOTE: PLEASE REFER TO THE VEHICLE APPLICATION LIST LATER IN THIS TSB
FOR A COMPLETE LIST OF VEHICLES AFFECTED BY THIS TSB.
ISSUE:
Ford Motor Company now recommends SAE 5W-20 viscosity grade for servicing
most gasoline and flexible fueled vehicles.
ACTION:
All 2001 and 2002 vehicles where SAE 5W-20 is specified should be serviced
at the recommended oil change intervals using SAE 5W-20. This oil is an
improved formulation to improve fuel economy. Testing has validated this
viscosity grade can be used in many previous model year vehicles. It is
recommended ALL vehicles on the following Vehicle Application Listing be
service with SAE 5W-20.
All 2001-2002 vehicles other than those listed in the "Exception 2001
Vehicles" or "Exception 2002 Vehicles" chart are being filled with SAE 5W-20
motor oil at the factory and should also be serviced with SAE 5W-20 oil.
Vehicle Application Listing Approved For SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil
a.. 1993-1996 1.9L Escort/Tracer
b.. 1995-2000 2.0L Zetec Contour/Mystique
c.. 1999-2002 2.0L Cougar
d.. 1997-2002 2.0L Escort/Tracer
e.. 1998-2002 2.0L Escort ZX2
f.. 2000-2002 2.0L Focus
g.. 2001-2002 2.0L Escape
h.. 1993-1997 2.3L Ranger
i.. 1993-1994 2.3L Mustang
j.. 1993-1994 2.3L Tempo/Topaz
k.. 1998-2001 2.5L Ranger
l.. 1995-2000 2.5L Contour/Mystique
m.. 1999-2002 2.5L Cougar
n.. 2001-2002 3.0L 4V Escape
o.. 1996-2001 3.0L 4V Taurus/Sable
p.. 1993-2002 3.0L (Vulcan) Aerostar/Ranger, Taurus/Sable (Flexible Fuel
and Gas)
q.. 1995-2000 3.0L (Vulcan) Windstar
r.. 1993-1994 3.0L (Vulcan) Tempo/Topaz
s.. 2000-2002 3.0L 4V Lincoln LS
t.. 1995-2002 3.8L Windstar
u.. 1993-1997 3.8L Taurus/Sable, Thunderbird/Cougar, Continental
v.. 1994-2002 3.8L Mustang
w.. 2002-2002 3.9L 4V Lincoln LS
x.. 1997-2002 4.2L (SPI) F-150 (under 8500 GVW only), E-Series
y.. 1996-2002 4.6L 2V Mustang
z.. 1992-2002 4.6L Crown Victoria/Grand Marquis
aa.. 1991-2002 4.6L Town Car
ab.. 1994-1997 4.6L 2V Thunderbird/Cougar
ac.. 1996-2002 4.6L 4V Mustang Cobra
ad.. 1995-2002 4.6L 4V Continental
ae.. 1993-1998 4.6L 4V Mark VIII
af.. 1997-2002 4.6L 2V Triton F-150/250 (under 8500 GVW only), E-Series,
Expedition
ag.. 1993-1999 4.9L E-Series, F-Series
ah.. 1993-1995 5.0L Mustang/Mustang Cobra
ai.. 1993-1993 5.0L Thunderbird/Cougar
aj.. 1997-2001 5.0L Explorer/Mountaineer
ak.. 1993-1996 5.0L E-Series, F-Series, Bronco
al.. 2000-2002 5.4L Excursion
am.. 1998-2002 5.4L 2V/4V Navigator
an.. 1997-2002 5.4L 2V F-150/250 (under 8500 GVW only), Expedition,
E-Series, E-350 Chassis/RV/Cutaway
ao.. 1993-1997 5.8L F-Series, Bronco
ap.. 1993-1996 5.8L E-Series
aq.. 2000-2002 6.8L Excursion
ar.. 1997-2002 6.8L E-Series, E-350 Chassis/RV/Cutaway
as.. 1999-2002 6.8L Super Duty F-Series 250 HD/350/450/550 Motorhome
at.. 1993-1998 7.5L All Vehicles
NOTE: FOR 1993 THROUGH 1998 MODEL YEAR FFV USE XO-10W30-FFV.
NOTE: THE "EXCEPTION 2001-2002 VEHICLES" SHOULD BE SERVICED WITH SAE
5W-30 MOTOR OIL.
Exception 2001 Vehicles
Engine Vehicle
3.3L Villager
3.9L Lincoln LS
4.0L Ranger, Explorer/Mountaineer, Explorer Sport, and Explorer Sport
Trac
Exception 2002 Vehicles
Engine Vehicle
2.0L HP Zetec SVT Focus
3.3L Villager
4.0L Ranger, Explorer/Mountaineer, Explorer Sport, and Explorer Sport
Trac
NOTE: IF VEHICLE IS NOT LISTED IN THIS APPLICATION, SAE 5W-30 OIL IS
RECOMMENDED. REFER TO TSB 99-8-16.
PART NUMBER PART NAME
XO-5W20-QSP SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil - Quart (USA)
CXO-5W20-LSP12 SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil - Litre (Canada)
XO-5W20-5QSP SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil - 5 Quart Jug (USA)
XO-5W20-DSP SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil - 55 Gallon Drum (USA)
CXO-5W20-DBSP SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil - 205 Litre Drum (Canada)
OTHER APPLICABLE ARTICLES:
99-8-16
SUPERSEDES:
01-4-7
WARRANTY STATUS:
INFORMATION ONLY
OASIS CODES:
401000, 490000, 497000, 499000
"I was pondering the idea of using 5W20 in my wife's 04 Concorde 2.7L engine, at least in the winter."
The temp range for 5w-30 in my 2002 Chrysler, and many newer cars in general, is from 100F down to below -20F. The average min/max winter temps for Lexington, Kentucky, which I don't think is far from you, are 23F-54F. Most oil firms don't list Borderline Pumping Temps (lowest temp at which oil still flows sufficiently), but Pennzoil does. Pennzoil 5w-30 has a BPT of -35C/-31F, the same as Pennzoil 5w-20. The ASTM Low Temp Viscosity for both are also the same. I think it safe to assume these attributes largely apply to other brands as well.
The HTHS viscosity (higher temp protection capability) of Pennz 5w-20 is 2.65, while the HTHS of Pennz 5w-30 is significantly better at 3.1.
In short, you'll gain little in cold temps by switching to 5w-20 (5w-30 flows well at temps MUCH colder than where you live), while experiencing significantly less protection once the engine's fully warmed-up. Don't see any real benefits in going 5w-20 for you, and no need to second-guess Chysler's engineers.
The temp range for 5w-30 in my 2002 Chrysler, and many newer cars in general, is from 100F down to below -20F. The average min/max winter temps for Lexington, Kentucky, which I don't think is far from you, are 23F-54F. Most oil firms don't list Borderline Pumping Temps (lowest temp at which oil still flows sufficiently), but Pennzoil does. Pennzoil 5w-30 has a BPT of -35C/-31F, the same as Pennzoil 5w-20. The ASTM Low Temp Viscosity for both are also the same. I think it safe to assume these attributes largely apply to other brands as well.
The HTHS viscosity (higher temp protection capability) of Pennz 5w-20 is 2.65, while the HTHS of Pennz 5w-30 is significantly better at 3.1.
In short, you'll gain little in cold temps by switching to 5w-20 (5w-30 flows well at temps MUCH colder than where you live), while experiencing significantly less protection once the engine's fully warmed-up. Don't see any real benefits in going 5w-20 for you, and no need to second-guess Chysler's engineers.
just use 5W-30.
You can believe whatever you want, but Ford did not change engine clearances or bearing materials from the 2000 to 2001 model years. The 2001 model year is when they started calling for 5W-20 instead of 5W-30.
Here is what I use in my Fords:
2000 SVT F-150 Lightning, specs 5W-30, use M1 5W-30 winter, 10W-30 summer
2001 Mustang GT, specs 5W-20, use M1 5W-30 winter, 10W-30 summer
1999 Ranger 4.0L OHV 4x4, specs 5W-30, use M1 T&S 5W-40 summer or year round, possibly M1 10W-30 winter.
Here is what I use in my Fords:
2000 SVT F-150 Lightning, specs 5W-30, use M1 5W-30 winter, 10W-30 summer
2001 Mustang GT, specs 5W-20, use M1 5W-30 winter, 10W-30 summer
1999 Ranger 4.0L OHV 4x4, specs 5W-30, use M1 T&S 5W-40 summer or year round, possibly M1 10W-30 winter.
"I don't see why 5W-20 couldn't be used in place of 5W-30 in any type of conditions. Generally speaking, 5W-20 has shown to be superior to 5W-30."
I have no problem with 5w-20, and in the past have pointed out many impressive 5w-20 UOAs for various rides. But certain spec's show real differences between weights. The HTHS viscosity (ASTM D-4683 -- high temp protection capability) of Pennz 5w-20 is 2.65, while the HTHS of Pennz 5w-30 is significantly better at 3.1.
http://www.bestchoice-car-care.com/american-society-for-testing-and-materials.html
I have no problem with 5w-20, and in the past have pointed out many impressive 5w-20 UOAs for various rides. But certain spec's show real differences between weights. The HTHS viscosity (ASTM D-4683 -- high temp protection capability) of Pennz 5w-20 is 2.65, while the HTHS of Pennz 5w-30 is significantly better at 3.1.
http://www.bestchoice-car-care.com/american-society-for-testing-and-materials.html
Does this look like an AMSOIL site to anybody else?
Bob W.
The person responding to your email just "modified" the canned response that was in the computer for owners asking about different oil weights. Almost always they are asking about heavier oils.
The new 5W-30 Motorcraft meets the same double sequence test as the 5W-20 and is a Synthetic Blend at Dino prices. $1.44 Qt at WalMart. Might be a good choice.
Gene
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