5W-50 Synth oils ?

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Of course I do. Because Amsoil doesn't chose to. Amsoil EXCEEDS the specification. Period.

As someone who used to write material specifications for a living, you can exceed them all you like and still say you meet them. That's how it works with a specification rather than a certification, and that's nothing like the way it's worded in the Data Bulletin.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Of course I do. Because Amsoil doesn't chose to. Amsoil EXCEEDS the specification. Period.

As someone who used to write material specifications for a living, you can exceed them all you like and still say you meet them. That's how it works with a specification rather than a certification, and that's nothing like the way it's worded in the Data Bulletin.


Using Amsoil 5W-50 will NOT in any way impact warranty coverage. If that is what you and the previous poster are saying, why not just say and prove it?

Just because you don't like the wording, or it doesn't meet your BITOG thought train, does not mean a product will harm warranty coverage.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Using Amsoil 5W-50 will NOT in any way impact warranty coverage. If that is what you and the previous poster are saying, why not just say and prove it?

Just because you don't like the wording, or it doesn't meet your BITOG thought train, does not mean a product will harm warranty coverage.

Nope, that's not what I said anywhere in this thread nor does it have anything to do with what I like or don't like. You are the one who said that Amsoil meets the specification, I pointed out that the literature does not say that. Period. You even agreed with me, saying that Amsoil choses not to state that they do.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Pablo is 100% right here. Enough already. Kschachn, I’ve noticed you really enjoy arguing.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Pablo is 100% right here. Enough already. Kschachn, I’ve noticed you really enjoy arguing.

If he's 100% right then I must be wrong? OK the two statements on the oils are the same then. Guess I can't read.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Pablo is 100% right here. Enough already. Kschachn, I’ve noticed you really enjoy arguing.

If he's 100% right then I must be wrong? OK the two statements on the oils are the same then. Guess I can't read.


Just relax. Ford WSS spec is not an “approval” like LL-01. It’s a specification. Pablo cleared that up and you just had to make a scene about it.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Pablo is 100% right here. Enough already. Kschachn, I’ve noticed you really enjoy arguing.

If he's 100% right then I must be wrong? OK the two statements on the oils are the same then. Guess I can't read.

Just relax. Ford WSS spec is not an “approval” like LL-01. It’s a specification. Pablo cleared that up and you just had to make a scene about it.

Lol I don't need to relax. Please read my posts again, I absolutely understand the difference between a spec and an approval (or a certification.) My point has nothing to do with that, it has everything to do with how it is worded. I only discussed the two when I was told that Amsoil exceeds the specification and that's why it is worded that way, as opposed to how Lucas states it on their product.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Pablo is 100% right here. Enough already. Kschachn, I’ve noticed you really enjoy arguing.

If he's 100% right then I must be wrong? OK the two statements on the oils are the same then. Guess I can't read.

Just relax. Ford WSS spec is not an “approval” like LL-01. It’s a specification. Pablo cleared that up and you just had to make a scene about it.

Lol I don't need to relax. Please read my posts again, I absolutely understand the difference between a spec and an approval (or a certification.) My point has nothing to do with that, it has everything to do with how it is worded. I only discussed the two when I was told that Amsoil exceeds the specification and that's why it is worded that way, as opposed to how Lucas states it on their product.


You’re arguing for the sake of arguing. Sure, not ideal, but is the wording really pertinent to this thread?

 

[2k05gt]

Thank you 1JZ_E46,

I am looking for an Oil that Meets or Exceeds the Ford specification (for Warranty)
If Amsoil, Lucus or Castrol meet and Exceed Motorcraft then by all means I will look at
them for my next oil change. I just want this beast performing at it's best..

The Service Rep said "why am I changing the oil at 2000 miles, motors today don't use break-in oil"

I said; oils have a shelf life, this car was built on Sept 9th 2017. it sat for 7 months on the show
room floor, I drove it for 2 months put 1996 miles on it, so now it's 9 months and 2000 miles
I don't trust the longevity of the oil at this point, so I want it changed..

BTW, the Dealer charged me 192.00 to change the oil. 10 qts, a filter and canister gasket

 

[ZeeOSix]

What are all the other GT350 guys over on Mustang6G running for oil?

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Sure, not ideal, but is the wording really pertinent to this thread?

He is making a valid point, though. Oil companies often word their compliance with this type of specification in different ways, and there are only a few oils that are very rigorous about how they do that. Even then, it can still lead to some confusion.

No matter how it's done, it will lead to confusion. List it under builder approvals, and we'll be complaining that there isn't formal approval. List it under meets/exceeds or a recommended for and we're wondering if it's actually tested to the specification in question.

Generally, some of the better ones I've seen are for XOM and Petro-Canada, where they'll list builder approvals separately, specs like this as "meets/exceeds," and use "recommended for" when it comes to an obsolete specification or for an approval they haven't actually sought but believe they would meet (some oddball viscosity HDEOs up here from the big guys lack actual API certification).

The way Amsoil lists it is pretty close to the way Petro-Canada characterises their 0w-30 HDEO as suitable for use where CK-4/SN are called for, and not having the actual approval.

Look here for what I consider a fairly clear way to delineate this, an example from Petro-Canada.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
You’re arguing for the sake of arguing. Sure, not ideal, but is the wording really pertinent to this thread?

Pablo said there was confusion on the board about the issue. I calmly, carefully and accurately pointed out the reason why the confusion existed.

If you continue to have an issue please take it up with poster oil_film_movies who brought it up in the first place.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
You’re arguing for the sake of arguing. Sure, not ideal, but is the wording really pertinent to this thread?

Pablo said there was confusion on the board about the issue. I calmly, carefully and accurately pointed out the reason why the confusion existed.

If you continue to have an issue please take it up with poster oil_film_movies who brought it up in the first place.


Oil_Film brought up a good question and Pablo cleared it up. Simple as that.

 

[2k05gt]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
What are all the other GT350 guys over on Mustang6G running for oil?


Most are sticking with Dealer Fill (Motorcraft) the cars had an option for lifetime oil changes.
only a couple are doing amsoil or Castrol . no one is using M1 or other brands

 

[OilUzer]

Nice car!

IF I had that car in your area and not racing it, I would consider a very good 10Wx40.

I read the OM but typically overrule it based on my own research.

imho, when it comes to oil selection, most OMs are or have to be one size fits all ...

Remember I said IF! lol

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Oil_Film brought up a good question and Pablo cleared it up. Simple as that.
Not really. I'm still not understanding how an oil which is not even the basic SN type oil, can still magically qualify for the Ford spec. How does that work? Don't you have to be SN first? Amsoil 5w50 is not even SN. I guess if you take Amsoils word for it, that would work. Pablo is a sales rep for Amsoil, so he's up against the truth, and is not winning.

Independent spec approvals or certifications are 3rd-party verifications, which this industry needs and Amsoil ignores for their SS line of oils.

Originally Posted By: 2k05gt
I am looking for an Oil that Meets or Exceeds the Ford specification (for Warranty)
If Amsoil, Lucus or Castrol meet and Exceed Motorcraft then by all means I will look at
them for my next oil change. I just want this beast performing at it's best..

Then I'd check with Ford to see if the Amsoil lack of even the basic SN spec approval is OK with the Warranty Claims department.
.... or just use Castrol 5w50, however you can get it online mail-order, for oil that has 3rd party approvals, no question it would be fine.

I know GM would NOT approve engine warranty claims if using Amsoil SS since its not dexos1 approved (although, oddly, Amsoil claims it does meet it, with a wink and nod that GM doesn't trust).

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Oil_Film brought up a good question and Pablo cleared it up. Simple as that.
Not really. I'm still not understanding how an oil which is not even the basic SN type oil, can still magically qualify for the Ford spec. How does that work? Don't you have to be SN first? Amsoil 5w50 is not even SN. I guess if you take Amsoils word for it, that would work. Pablo is a sales rep for Amsoil, so he's up against the truth, and is not winning.

Independent spec approvals or certifications are 3rd-party verifications, which this industry needs and Amsoil ignores for their SS line of oils.

Originally Posted By: 2k05gt
I am looking for an Oil that Meets or Exceeds the Ford specification (for Warranty)
If Amsoil, Lucus or Castrol meet and Exceed Motorcraft then by all means I will look at
them for my next oil change. I just want this beast performing at it's best..

Then I'd check with Ford to see if the Amsoil lack of even the basic SN spec approval is OK with the Warranty Claims department.
.... or just use Castrol 5w50, however you can get it online mail-order, for oil that has 3rd party approvals, no question it would be fine.

I know GM would NOT approve engine warranty claims if using Amsoil SS since its not dexos1 approved (although, oddly, Amsoil claims it does meet it, with a wink and nod that GM doesn't trust).


This is a specification, a minimum specification. There are no "approvals". No magic qualification. It's REALLY odd. Where are the approvals for Lucas or Castrol? They don't need them. I know you don't like Amsoil, and that is fine. But Amsoil does NOT IGNORE specifications. They know darn well what the specs are. API SN is not a hard requirement for FORD WSS-M2C931-C. Lucas 5W-50 is API SM, for example.

GM and Dexos are not in play here.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Where are the approvals for Lucas or Castrol?
Ford does list and offically endorse Castrol SuperCar 5w50. One can trust THAT oil to be the right one:
2018 Ford GT Owner's Manual excerpt:


Originally Posted By: Pablo
They know darn well what the specs are. API SN is not a hard requirement for FORD WSS-M2C931-C.
Knowing ain't the same thing as doing. SN not a prerequisite for WSS-M2C931-C? Are you sure? Reference source for that? Did you buy a copy of the Ford spec? ... Because your statement contradicts opmustang.com 's "If you have a vehicle built in the last few years your owners manual will show WSS-M2C931-A, B or C. C is the latest Ford Spec which now meets SN API requirements. The B suffix was phased out last year which was an SM rated oil." statements.
Your statement also contradicts the https://standards.globalspec.com/std/1551945/ford-wss-m2c931-c standards title:


That means Lucas is disqualified, technically, since its SM still. https://lucasoil.com/pdf/TDS_Syn-SAE-5W-50-MO.pdf

Originally Posted By: Pablo
I know you don't like Amsoil, and that is fine.
Oh, you "know" this. I never said that. Actually, I'd use Amsoil for something off the Powertrain Warranty. For racing or modded-off-warranty vehicles, Amsoil is a good choice. (Even then, for high mileage vehicles I prefer 'High Mileage' style oil, which Amsoil refuses to offer.)

These days, with things like M1 Annual Protection and Ravenol out now, there is little need to buy Amsoil, but its very likely good oil too. Redline is in the same category as Amsoil, its missing API and 3rd-party-verified approvals many times, but good oil.

Main principle: 3rd party certifications and approvals are important for warranty purposes if they (GM, Ford, etc.) wants to be strict. And they might.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Where are the approvals for Lucas or Castrol?
Ford does list and offically endorse Castrol SuperCar 5w50. One can trust THAT oil to be the right one:

There are two reasons that Castrol is listed and endorsed in that manual, aside from it meeting the specification in question. First, outside of North America, Ford has a relationship with Castrol. Secondly, if you look at a picture of last year's Ford GT in Le Mans livery, right above the rear wheel well, you'll see.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Oil_Film, you're making this far more complicated than it needs to be. I think you're failing to understand that their is no stamp of approval from Ford here. Rather, Ford publishes minimum (ASTM) specs and its up to the oil company to ensure the oil meets those specs. So you either believe Amsoil, or you don't (i.e. you think they're lying). Sounds like you have an axe to grind with Amsoil (you gave it away by saying that Amsoil is irrelevant now because of M1 AP and Ravenol).