5.7 HEMI preventative care, which flavor of 5w20

Messages
6
So I'm sure we all know the history of 5 7 Hemi's having needle bearings seize and freeze the rollers, causing lifter failure and grinding down the cam. There are 2 reasons thst I've found that are blamed for the failure. 1. Is that the design of the motor doesn't get enough oil to the lifters or the camshaft at or below ~1500rpm. 2. Is varnish buildup on the internals of the rollers, causing the bearings sticking to the race, seizing, and causing the failure.
As such, it seems that the 5.7 would be better served (not trying to argue that there's a miracle oil) by a particularly high-detergent oil to bulwark against varnish formation, and a high anti-wear additive oil to better serve that cam. I know everything API SN/SN+, GF-5/6, MS-6395 meets standards for the motor, but in my application i want to pamper the motor. Given all that, I can't decide between Pennzoil Ultra and Shell Rotella Gas Truck. In 5w20, theyre both good oils obviously, and I'd normally go with the PUP but it appears from the VOA's I've been able to find it seems that PUP has a lower molybdenum, zinc, and phosphorus count (all of which i believe are markers of anti-wear additives) while at the same time has a higher Calcium and Magnesium count (detergent markers i believe) RGT shows higher levels of the anti-wear additives but has lower detergency. So with PUP having the better base oil and slightly better detergency, it appears that their anti-wear package is a little anemic compared to RGT. Ideally, I'd be happy with an oil with the anti-wear package of RGT and the detergency of PUP. So between the 2, which one, given the application seems more appropriate? Are there other oils thst meet MS-6395 with the detergency levels found in SOPUS oils (PUP in particular) that have higher levels of anti-wear additives (moly, zinc, phosphorus)?
For reference, I do a ~5000 mile OCI with either a Wix or Fram Ultra. My driving is mostly in-town short trips (<15mi) and semi-rural state routes (35-40 miles at 50ish MPH) i don't do a ton of highway time.
And living in New England, ill only use synthetic because -15 degree starts suck
 
Messages
23,745
Location
CA
Seems like PP (not sure about PU) SN+/SP oils have lower P/Zn than other oils. The difference is 100-125ppm. Not sure if this matters, but if it does (to you), consider the Valvoline Advanced Synthetic or Castrol alternatives.
 
Messages
4,238
Location
Kansas
Lots of guys run to Redline Oil 5w20 but if your caught up in using a basic oil I think the Castrol Magnatec or QSUD might be okay but maybe in 5w30.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JTK

JTK

Messages
13,375
Location
Buffalo, NY
So many theories on the hemi lifter issues.. Some swear by everything uncle Tony says, some don't. He definitely knows 100x what I know. I just don't know if I buy his theory or some of the others I've read.

Assuming the OP is talking about his 2019 Ram 1500 classic w/ hemi, I've read that the part #'s of the actual lifters had changed somehwere around 2017-18, so supposedly it's got the 'latest and greatest' in terms of lifters.

I've got the same truck and I run supertech synthetic 5w30 and a moly additive. No idea if it's going to help, it just makes me feel good.

On a popular Ram forum I frequent, the go-to oil is Redline, but I think it's the 5w30 that has the most moly.
 
Messages
1,489
Location
Warner Robins, GA
I've been running QSuD in mine I may switch to 5w30 on my next fill since I'll be out of warranty.. No particular reason other than a lot of people seem to say that's a good idea.
 

Zee09

Site Donor 2021
Messages
4,963
Location
Fairhill Maryland
It may be worthwhile to use basic ST oil or any other at a discount as long as it meets required specs and try
Lubegard 30901 Bio/Tech as an additive.
Still a cheap change.
I never used it but many here like it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JTK
Messages
6,456
Location
Connecticut
I've been running Castrol Edge 0w40 in my father's 2013 Grand Cherokee 5.7L. It's quickly approaching 170k miles, and he hammers the thing. It has quite a few miles pulling a dual axle dump trailer behind it, often through several states. No signs of Hemi tick yet. It was consuming a tiny bit (maybe a 1/4 quart) on 5w20 Pennzoil Platinum, but that has stopped with the 0w40. No issues with the MDS either.
 

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
Messages
45,842
Location
Ontario, Canada
I don't know what Hemi you have but...
No matter the oil, it will not overcome Chrysler's engineering blunder. This is one engine where I'd use Castrol Magnatec.
Having more zinc or.. doesn't matter if parts aren't getting oiled on occasion.

That video was already picked apart on here. He's missing the fact that the lifters bores are pressure lubed.
 

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
Messages
45,842
Location
Ontario, Canada
So many theories on the hemi lifter issues.. Some swear by everything uncle Tony says, some don't. He definitely knows 100x what I know. I just don't know if I buy his theory or some of the others I've read.

Assuming the OP is talking about his 2019 Ram 1500 classic w/ hemi, I've read that the part #'s of the actual lifters had changed somehwere around 2017-18, so supposedly it's got the 'latest and greatest' in terms of lifters.

I've got the same truck and I run supertech synthetic 5w30 and a moly additive. No idea if it's going to help, it just makes me feel good.

On a popular Ram forum I frequent, the go-to oil is Redline, but I think it's the 5w30 that has the most moly.

Tony completely misses that the lifter bores are pressure lubed, so everything beyond that should be ignored. We've discussed this extensively in the past.

The lifter part #'s have changed multiple times at this point. The issue has affected both MDS and non-MDS engines.

Most engines will live long and event-free lives. Some of them, typically when they are over 100,000 miles, may have a lifter seize up and take out the cam lobe. There isn't an additive or ZDDP dose that's going to stop that damage from happening once it starts so no amount of dosing the oil with Magic Wizard oil fornicator and fortifier 9000 is going to help.

I suspect that since it seems to primarily impact high mileage engines that varnish or contamination as the engine gets dirtier inside as age takes its toll may have something to do with the resultant roller ceasing to roll and the cascading failure that follows. Ergo, my plan with my HEMI's is simply good oils with the best filters I can buy (FRAM Ultra) in hopes of warding off varnish and keeping particulate out of circulation.

Of course if the cause is valve springs that get weak and valve float hammers the roller (another theory I've floated) then even that isn't going to help. The HEMI cam is not overly mild at almost .500 lift, and the SRT cams are even more aggressive, though I expect they have better springs to compensate. The engine has big valves and funky valve train geometry to boot too.
 
Messages
9
Location
GA
I don't know what Hemi you have but...
No matter the oil, it will not overcome Chrysler's engineering blunder. This is one engine where I'd use Castrol Magnatec.
Having more zinc or.. doesn't matter if parts aren't getting oiled on occasion.

If only Magnatec had Chrysler MS-6395 compliance for those of us still under warranty. I've heard Edge still has some of the "intelligent molecules" but I wonder what % vs Magnatec.
 

JTK

Messages
13,375
Location
Buffalo, NY
Tony completely misses that the lifter bores are pressure lubed, so everything beyond that should be ignored. We've discussed this extensively in the past.

I realize this and have read the threads here for years, even though I've only owned a hemi for a few months.

Does UTG completely miss that though? Haven't all domestic push-rod V8s with lifters have pressure lubed lifters both for the bore and lash adjustment bits on them like forever?
To me, he talks at length about how the lifters lay so flat that any oil running down the lifter body (be it pressure lubed or not) falls off before it reaches the roller and needle bearings for the rollers. That and how that oil gallery pipe blocks oil flinging off the crankshaft from reaching the cam and rollers. I can't bring myself to watch/listen to the video again. LOL and yes.. I get it that it's been talked about.
 

Zee09

Site Donor 2021
Messages
4,963
Location
Fairhill Maryland
Tony completely misses that the lifter bores are pressure lubed, so everything beyond that should be ignored. We've discussed this extensively in the past.

The lifter part #'s have changed multiple times at this point. The issue has affected both MDS and non-MDS engines.

Most engines will live long and event-free lives. Some of them, typically when they are over 100,000 miles, may have a lifter seize up and take out the cam lobe. There isn't an additive or ZDDP dose that's going to stop that damage from happening once it starts so no amount of dosing the oil with Magic Wizard oil fornicator and fortifier 9000 is going to help.

I suspect that since it seems to primarily impact high mileage engines that varnish or contamination as the engine gets dirtier inside as age takes its toll may have something to do with the resultant roller ceasing to roll and the cascading failure that follows. Ergo, my plan with my HEMI's is simply good oils with the best filters I can buy (FRAM Ultra) in hopes of warding off varnish and keeping particulate out of circulation.

Of course if the cause is valve springs that get weak and valve float hammers the roller (another theory I've floated) then even that isn't going to help. The HEMI cam is not overly mild at almost .500 lift, and the SRT cams are even more aggressive, though I expect they have better springs to compensate. The engine has big valves and funky valve train geometry to boot too.
Doesn't Bio/ Tech say on the front of the bottle that it minimizes varnish and sludge? So if it is a low mileage vehicle your Fram and a short oci plan might extend the life. Right?
Not that I use the product but owners are looking to be proactive. I know I would be.
 
Top