5.4L AMSOIL 5-20XL
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i run 5w30 in our f150 during summer, 5w20 in winter. works great
Originally Posted By: Artem
Originally Posted By: austinlunsford
i run 5w30 in our f150 during summer, 5w20 in winter. works great
I agree with this guy, except i'd do 0w20 in the winter
The OP lives in North Carolina, I am sure that 5W-20 will be fine in the wintertime.
If the OP lived in North Dakota, then I would agree with using 0W-20 during the winter time.
Originally Posted By: austinlunsford
i run 5w30 in our f150 during summer, 5w20 in winter. works great
I agree with this guy, except i'd do 0w20 in the winter
The OP lives in North Carolina, I am sure that 5W-20 will be fine in the wintertime.
If the OP lived in North Dakota, then I would agree with using 0W-20 during the winter time.
Originally Posted By: austinlunsford
i run 5w30 in our f150 during summer, 5w20 in winter. works great
I could see 5W-XX in the summer and 0W-XX in the winter for improved cold starts. But why the seasonal difference between XW-20 and XW-30? Isn't normal engine operating temperature pretty much the same?
i run 5w30 in our f150 during summer, 5w20 in winter. works great
I could see 5W-XX in the summer and 0W-XX in the winter for improved cold starts. But why the seasonal difference between XW-20 and XW-30? Isn't normal engine operating temperature pretty much the same?
I have a mod motor in my mustang. Fresh rebuild,forged bottom end for the 200 shot of nitrous. My engine builder among others swear by a 5w-40 for the 2v mod motors. My uncle was a ford engineer and told me much about the design of the 5.4/4.6 2v. Anyway long story short for originally spec'd a 5w-30 for these motors then due to CAFE back spec'd a 5w-20.
From what I know about these motors and their rpm capability as well as there higher rpm efficiency I would use no lighter than a 5w-30 in them in summer and a 0w-30 in severe winter. Just my educated opinion on these motors.
From what I know about these motors and their rpm capability as well as there higher rpm efficiency I would use no lighter than a 5w-30 in them in summer and a 0w-30 in severe winter. Just my educated opinion on these motors.
5w-20 is made with thinner base oil than 5w-30 is.
Originally Posted By: barlowc
Originally Posted By: austinlunsford
i run 5w30 in our f150 during summer, 5w20 in winter. works great
I could see 5W-XX in the summer and 0W-XX in the winter for improved cold starts. But why the seasonal difference between XW-20 and XW-30? Isn't normal engine operating temperature pretty much the same?
That would depend on the vehicle. One of mine generally runs a 20F lower oil temp between summer and winter.
Originally Posted By: austinlunsford
i run 5w30 in our f150 during summer, 5w20 in winter. works great
I could see 5W-XX in the summer and 0W-XX in the winter for improved cold starts. But why the seasonal difference between XW-20 and XW-30? Isn't normal engine operating temperature pretty much the same?
That would depend on the vehicle. One of mine generally runs a 20F lower oil temp between summer and winter.
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Originally Posted By: Clevy
From what I know about these motors and their rpm capability as well as there higher rpm efficiency I would use no lighter than a 5w-30 in them in summer and a 0w-30 in severe winter.
Out of curiosity, why? Ford specifies 5w-20 for them, does 5w-20 cause more wear or not stand up as well as 5w-30? No sarcasm or baiting for arguments, but I seem to see quite a few people recommend 5w-30 over 5w-20 (even in climates suited for 5w-20) despite Ford's specification.
Clevy, you may not be able to answer (and definitely not attempting to put you on the spot), but perhaps, someone else has some insight into this one. Why are there so many recommendations to use 5w-30 instead of 5w-20 in these trucks?
From what I know about these motors and their rpm capability as well as there higher rpm efficiency I would use no lighter than a 5w-30 in them in summer and a 0w-30 in severe winter.
Out of curiosity, why? Ford specifies 5w-20 for them, does 5w-20 cause more wear or not stand up as well as 5w-30? No sarcasm or baiting for arguments, but I seem to see quite a few people recommend 5w-30 over 5w-20 (even in climates suited for 5w-20) despite Ford's specification.
Clevy, you may not be able to answer (and definitely not attempting to put you on the spot), but perhaps, someone else has some insight into this one. Why are there so many recommendations to use 5w-30 instead of 5w-20 in these trucks?
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Clevy, you may not be able to answer (and definitely not attempting to put you on the spot), but perhaps, someone else has some insight into this one. Why are there so many recommendations to use 5w-30 instead of 5w-20 in these trucks?
Excellent question and excellent point. One of my contractors has a 2008 or 2009 F-150, running the specified 5w-20. He isn't picky about brands, but picky about following the viscosity recommendations; I've even done some of his OCs for him. He drives a minimum of 300 miles per day, five days a week, and it still runs like new. That's not to say he hasn't had mechanical/warranty issues, but not one of them was related to the engine.
Clevy, you may not be able to answer (and definitely not attempting to put you on the spot), but perhaps, someone else has some insight into this one. Why are there so many recommendations to use 5w-30 instead of 5w-20 in these trucks?
Excellent question and excellent point. One of my contractors has a 2008 or 2009 F-150, running the specified 5w-20. He isn't picky about brands, but picky about following the viscosity recommendations; I've even done some of his OCs for him. He drives a minimum of 300 miles per day, five days a week, and it still runs like new. That's not to say he hasn't had mechanical/warranty issues, but not one of them was related to the engine.
Grasshopper: Oil should be as thin as possible but as thick as necessary.
CAN you use a 30 grade in a Ford modular? Yes. Is there any benefit to doing so? No. Unless you run a high performance machine, have fuel dilution problems or beat the oil really hard in a high ambient temp environment, there is no need for oil any thicker.
For one thing the operating viscosity is largely dependent on the oil temp. I happen to know, from more than three years of monitoring the oil temp in my 5.4L, that the oil temp is consistently low... virtually always under 210F. Most times it was around 200, even on a hot summer day (mid 90sF), and around 190 on days from 70-80F. On really cold days ('teens to 30sF), it stayed in the 180s F.
What that means is that, most times, at oil temps below the 212F viscosity rating temp, the 5W20 you are running is operating in or near 30 grade territory (cooler oil is thicker). When you run a 30 grade at the same oil temps, it will be running nearer 40 grade territory and maybe into 50 grade with oil temps in the 180s. Depends on what the starting kinematic viscosity was whether you actually cross those grade lines.
Interestingly, I am seeing higher oil temps consistently now that I switched to a 30 grade. Go figure. I am using a 10W30 in my '05 VVT 5.4L, not because I think it's doing me any good in and of itself, but because it consolidates all the oil in my farm fleet to one, a 10W30 CJ4/SM fleet oil. The oil temp now consistently runs about 8-10 degrees higher than with 5W20 due to the extra fluid friction.
I did extensive testing on my 3-valve modular because the VVT (Variable Valve Timing) is oil pressure controlled and since oil pressure goes up with a thicker oil, the possibility existed that it would effect valve timing adversely. I can datalog VVT operation with the programmer I use. I did so with 5w20 and with the new 10W30 and couldn't see a difference in how the system operates. When it gets really cold this winter, I'll try again.
So, Yancy, my recommendation is to stay with a robust 5W or 0W20 with your modular. It's all that engine needs. Amsoil XL will fall into the robust category but that oil is a bit of overkill unless you really work that engine super hard or plan on extended OCIs (up to 10K), but that's your choice to make.
CAN you use a 30 grade in a Ford modular? Yes. Is there any benefit to doing so? No. Unless you run a high performance machine, have fuel dilution problems or beat the oil really hard in a high ambient temp environment, there is no need for oil any thicker.
For one thing the operating viscosity is largely dependent on the oil temp. I happen to know, from more than three years of monitoring the oil temp in my 5.4L, that the oil temp is consistently low... virtually always under 210F. Most times it was around 200, even on a hot summer day (mid 90sF), and around 190 on days from 70-80F. On really cold days ('teens to 30sF), it stayed in the 180s F.
What that means is that, most times, at oil temps below the 212F viscosity rating temp, the 5W20 you are running is operating in or near 30 grade territory (cooler oil is thicker). When you run a 30 grade at the same oil temps, it will be running nearer 40 grade territory and maybe into 50 grade with oil temps in the 180s. Depends on what the starting kinematic viscosity was whether you actually cross those grade lines.
Interestingly, I am seeing higher oil temps consistently now that I switched to a 30 grade. Go figure. I am using a 10W30 in my '05 VVT 5.4L, not because I think it's doing me any good in and of itself, but because it consolidates all the oil in my farm fleet to one, a 10W30 CJ4/SM fleet oil. The oil temp now consistently runs about 8-10 degrees higher than with 5W20 due to the extra fluid friction.
I did extensive testing on my 3-valve modular because the VVT (Variable Valve Timing) is oil pressure controlled and since oil pressure goes up with a thicker oil, the possibility existed that it would effect valve timing adversely. I can datalog VVT operation with the programmer I use. I did so with 5w20 and with the new 10W30 and couldn't see a difference in how the system operates. When it gets really cold this winter, I'll try again.
So, Yancy, my recommendation is to stay with a robust 5W or 0W20 with your modular. It's all that engine needs. Amsoil XL will fall into the robust category but that oil is a bit of overkill unless you really work that engine super hard or plan on extended OCIs (up to 10K), but that's your choice to make.
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Im a ford Senior Master Tech and Senior master Diesel Tech. I have seen it myself 5-30 does not do anything to the VVT on these trucks. If anything I have seen more stable operation with 5-30. Originally these engines were designed to run on 5-30 as stated above. I was also originally designed with a 6qt pan. Just before release Ford switched the pan from 6 to 7 and dropped the oil grade to 5-20 as they found cooler temps with this vis of oil. I personally have Not seen this. I have had very good results with 5-30 in the VVT Modular and will continue to use it...even redline 5-30 that is almost 40wt...no difference
Also as stated above 2 valves love 40wt oil. Your engine builder actually has a clue.
Im a ford Senior Master Tech and Senior master Diesel Tech. I have seen it myself 5-30 does not do anything to the VVT on these trucks. If anything I have seen more stable operation with 5-30. Originally these engines were designed to run on 5-30 as stated above. I was also originally designed with a 6qt pan. Just before release Ford switched the pan from 6 to 7 and dropped the oil grade to 5-20 as they found cooler temps with this vis of oil. I personally have Not seen this. I have had very good results with 5-30 in the VVT Modular and will continue to use it...even redline 5-30 that is almost 40wt...no difference
Also as stated above 2 valves love 40wt oil. Your engine builder actually has a clue.
Yes,you can say the 2-valve engines were "designed" for 5W30 but since the 3-valves with VVT were designed AFTER Ford switched the modulars to 5W20, you can say they were "designed" for 5W20.
Smokefan1977:
Please define "good results?"
Please define "More stable operation."
What I see is "no difference." I had my eyes clued to the programmer screen for months watching VVT operation with 5W20 and then with 10W30. Nothing changed. I certainly wouldn't call it more stable now. If you have other info to share, I'm all ears.
As yet, there is no preponderance of evidence that 5W30 (or any 30 grade) is "better" in a modular than 5W20, outside a few special situations (either factory hi-po or aftermarket modded). If you have something that shows it is in a broad sense, I'd love to see it. What I see are out there are UOAs that are virtually the same. With either oil, the engine will do 200K miles or more with good care. The main difference is that you can achieve better fuel economy (a few percent) with 5W20 and have better startup oil flow.
I say all this with no horse in the race. I switched to a 30 grade for reasons other than thinking it was better. I did sufficient testing to prove to myself that would be no short term harm, nothing more. If someone could prove to me that a 30 grade is better, I'd switch in a heartbeat and be an advocate. The preponderance of the evidence is currently that 5W20 in a modular is far more than adequate, plus it saves a little gas.
Smokefan1977:
Please define "good results?"
Please define "More stable operation."
What I see is "no difference." I had my eyes clued to the programmer screen for months watching VVT operation with 5W20 and then with 10W30. Nothing changed. I certainly wouldn't call it more stable now. If you have other info to share, I'm all ears.
As yet, there is no preponderance of evidence that 5W30 (or any 30 grade) is "better" in a modular than 5W20, outside a few special situations (either factory hi-po or aftermarket modded). If you have something that shows it is in a broad sense, I'd love to see it. What I see are out there are UOAs that are virtually the same. With either oil, the engine will do 200K miles or more with good care. The main difference is that you can achieve better fuel economy (a few percent) with 5W20 and have better startup oil flow.
I say all this with no horse in the race. I switched to a 30 grade for reasons other than thinking it was better. I did sufficient testing to prove to myself that would be no short term harm, nothing more. If someone could prove to me that a 30 grade is better, I'd switch in a heartbeat and be an advocate. The preponderance of the evidence is currently that 5W20 in a modular is far more than adequate, plus it saves a little gas.
Good results in UOA and Via my IDS ( Ford proprietary scanner ) I can view exactly when Valves open and close. In the program you can view optimal timing based on the engine chosen or Vin # inputed. Most if not all will vary slighly as it does with 5-30 aswell, but I have seen the opening and closing valve timing be more in " The Good " and not as much fluctuation.The screan allows the Tech to View a pre printed graph of where the reading should be compared to what you are actually seeing I feel this is one reason most 5.4L owners feel their idle is much smoother with 5-30 and expierence quieter operation. Im sure if needed I can rustle up a screan shot next week of exactly what I see when viewing VVT operation on the IDS.
Im not saying 5-20 won't work in these engines, but I do not feel that is drastically hinders VVT operation as many people portray on this forum.
As stated from another poster in this thread CAFE got involved, a higher capacity oil pan and 15 degree cooler T stat is why 5-20 is spec for these engine. The 3V was originally slated to spec 5-30.
Im not saying 5-20 won't work in these engines, but I do not feel that is drastically hinders VVT operation as many people portray on this forum.
As stated from another poster in this thread CAFE got involved, a higher capacity oil pan and 15 degree cooler T stat is why 5-20 is spec for these engine. The 3V was originally slated to spec 5-30.
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Originally Posted By: Smokefan1977
Good results in UOA and Via my IDS ( Ford proprietary scanner ) I can view exactly when Valves open and close. In the program you can view optimal timing based on the engine chosen or Vin # inputed. Most if not all will vary slighly as it does with 5-30 aswell, but I have seen the opening and closing valve timing be more in " The Good " and not as much fluctuation.The screan allows the Tech to View a pre printed graph of where the reading should be compared to what you are actually seeing I feel this is one reason most 5.4L owners feel their idle is much smoother with 5-30 and expierence quieter operation. Im sure if needed I can rustle up a screan shot next week of exactly what I see when viewing VVT operation on the IDS.
Im not saying 5-20 won't work in these engines, but I do not feel that is drastically hinders VVT operation as many people portray on this forum.
As stated from another poster in this thread CAFE got involved, a higher capacity oil pan and 15 degree cooler T stat is why 5-20 is spec for these engine. The 3V was originally slated to spec 5-30.
So what your saying is 5-30 the engine will run quieter?
Good results in UOA and Via my IDS ( Ford proprietary scanner ) I can view exactly when Valves open and close. In the program you can view optimal timing based on the engine chosen or Vin # inputed. Most if not all will vary slighly as it does with 5-30 aswell, but I have seen the opening and closing valve timing be more in " The Good " and not as much fluctuation.The screan allows the Tech to View a pre printed graph of where the reading should be compared to what you are actually seeing I feel this is one reason most 5.4L owners feel their idle is much smoother with 5-30 and expierence quieter operation. Im sure if needed I can rustle up a screan shot next week of exactly what I see when viewing VVT operation on the IDS.
Im not saying 5-20 won't work in these engines, but I do not feel that is drastically hinders VVT operation as many people portray on this forum.
As stated from another poster in this thread CAFE got involved, a higher capacity oil pan and 15 degree cooler T stat is why 5-20 is spec for these engine. The 3V was originally slated to spec 5-30.
So what your saying is 5-30 the engine will run quieter?
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Originally Posted By: Smokefan1977
Good results in UOA
Please elaborate on "good"; good in what way? Better than my first 8 OCs in 5w-20? I did not have them all on one sheet so there is a bit of overlap. All of them are PU in 5w-20 (except the FF which would have been MC 5w-20 SynBlend).
OC1 - OC4
OC3 - OC8
Originally Posted By: Smokefan1977
Im not saying 5-20 won't work in these engines, but I do not feel that is drastically hinders VVT operation as many people portray on this forum.
Can you clarify this statement?
Good results in UOA
Please elaborate on "good"; good in what way? Better than my first 8 OCs in 5w-20? I did not have them all on one sheet so there is a bit of overlap. All of them are PU in 5w-20 (except the FF which would have been MC 5w-20 SynBlend).
OC1 - OC4
OC3 - OC8
Originally Posted By: Smokefan1977
Im not saying 5-20 won't work in these engines, but I do not feel that is drastically hinders VVT operation as many people portray on this forum.
Can you clarify this statement?
Have you guys that run ford 5.4 found one oil that seems to do better than others? I have been running motorcraft full synthetic 5-20w but I am no real satisfied with it. the engine seems loader than my friends with the same truck that run syn blend motorcraft 5-20? The truck only has 5k on it so I wont to find a good oil and stay with it.
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Originally Posted By: YANCEY
Have you guys that run ford 5.4 found one oil that seems to do better than others? I have been running motorcraft full synthetic 5-20w but I am no real satisfied with it. the engine seems loader than my friends with the same truck that run syn blend motorcraft 5-20? The truck only has 5k on it so I wont to find a good oil and stay with it.
Pennzoil Ultra 5w-20 has performed perfectly in my 2010 5.4L, but do not take my word for it--scroll up a bit and look at my first 8 UOAs...
Have you guys that run ford 5.4 found one oil that seems to do better than others? I have been running motorcraft full synthetic 5-20w but I am no real satisfied with it. the engine seems loader than my friends with the same truck that run syn blend motorcraft 5-20? The truck only has 5k on it so I wont to find a good oil and stay with it.
Pennzoil Ultra 5w-20 has performed perfectly in my 2010 5.4L, but do not take my word for it--scroll up a bit and look at my first 8 UOAs...
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