5-20 in stinky hot weather

Kelton · May 15, 2005

I found a nearby store with Amsoil. I think someone on this site mentioned that Amsoil was a "thick" 5-20....and I suppose that's what I'm seeking. Perhaps a "thin" 10-30 would suffice as well.
I'm driving a new Honda CR-V which, in the US, is spec'd for 5-20.
So far, I'm considering Amsoil 5-20 or Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w30 or 10w30 for the summer.
There is also the matter of the additives included in the oil. My understanding is the the Mobil option does include the sorts of additives that people believe Honda's need....does Amsoil?

Thanks for any tips!
Kelton

AEHaas · May 15, 2005

I am using 0W-20 and 5W-20 oils in my Ferrari, Maybach, MB SL 600 and Expedition here in Florida all year. UOA are good. Of course I am not on the track every day nor pulling trailers.

aehaas

Alan · May 15, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by AEHaas:
I am using 0W-20 and 5W-20 oils in my Ferrari, Maybach, MB SL 600 and Expedition here in Florida all year. UOA are good. Of course I am not on the track every day nor pulling trailers.

aehaas

Do any of your engines use timing chains?
If so are you worried about premature chain tensioner wear?

C4Dave · May 15, 2005

IIRC, some of the Amzoil oils are not API certified. If you have a vehicle under warrantee, I would encourage you to use an oil that meets the manufacturers requirements.

haley10 · May 16, 2005

Kelton, Amsoil wesite says XLM is 8.5 cst @100C and HT/HS 2.7

It's a true 5W-20 and not exactly in the same ballpark as Mobil 1 Extended Performance 10w30...more analogaus to Mobil 1 5W-20.

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong , but I believe all the XL series Amsoils are API certified.

jtantare · May 16, 2005

I love the blunt honesty of Mobil's Australia web site.

quote:

HONDA CR-V, 2354cm³ Eng., 4WD (2002-2004)
CRANKCASE
MOBIL 1 0W-40 or MOBIL Synthetic S 10W-40 or MOBIL SUPER S 10W-40 or MOBIL 1 10w30 or MOBIL SUPER GF-2 10w30
Capacity 4.2* Litres

Mobil Australia CR-V

For those recommending 5w20 in everything from a Ford to a Maybach, how many 100k have you gone on 5w20 in extremely hot weather?

[ May 16, 2005, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: jtantare ]

Craig · May 16, 2005

Yes all Amsoil X series oils are API certified and they have
the API ring on them.
Craig

y_p_w · May 16, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by haley10:
Kelton, Amsoil wesite says XLM is 8.5 cst @100C and HT/HS 2.7

It's a true 5W-20 and not exactly in the same ballpark as Mobil 1 Extended Performance 10w30...more analogaus to Mobil 1 5W-20.

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong , but I believe all the XL series Amsoils are API certified.

Saw them (XL Series) in a store yesterday. They had the API donut and starburst where appropriate on the front label. I didn't know if it was worth paying $6/quart.....

All other Amsoil oil labels were carefully labelled as "meets engine protection requirements of API S-" without saying they met all the requirements. I guess the just is that they might not meet some of limits on Zi/Ph.

buster · May 16, 2005

Correct, the new Amsoil XL 5w-20 meets API/SM/GF-4.

Here are the specs to the new Mobil 1 5w-20.

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_5W-20.asp

AEHaas · May 16, 2005

The high RPM Ferrari has belts, the others have chains and I am not worried because my engines are running low load and therefore low temperature and therefore thicker viscosities of the given grade.

A 40 wt oil with a sump temp of 300 F is thinner than a 20 wt oil with a sump temp of 200 F.

aehaas

Patman · May 16, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by AEHaas:

A 40 wt oil with a sump temp of 300 F is thinner than a 20 wt oil with a sump temp of 200 F.

This is an excellent point that a lot of people overlook! And it's one of the reasons I tell Corvette owners not to run Mobil 1 5w30 if they drive it hard, because when they've got 300F oil temps and an oil which is only 10.0 cst at 100c, they aren't getting the right viscosity they need!

Kelton · May 17, 2005

So what explains the information below?
10-40??!!
This, and similar information from Honda Japan and Honda Phillipines seems to confirm that the US is an arbitrary area where Honda recommends a strict application of 5-20.

quote:

Originally posted by jtantare:
I love the blunt honesty of Mobil's Australia web site.

quote:

HONDA CR-V, 2354cm³ Eng., 4WD (2002-2004)
CRANKCASE
MOBIL 1 0W-40 or MOBIL Synthetic S 10W-40 or MOBIL SUPER S 10W-40 or MOBIL 1 10w30 or MOBIL SUPER GF-2 10w30
Capacity 4.2* Litres

Click to expand...

Mobil Australia CR-V

For those recommending 5w20 in everything from a Ford to a Maybach, how many 100k have you gone on 5w20 in extremely hot weather?

jtantare · May 17, 2005

And if that's not enough, look at the recommendations for the Accord 3.0 V6.

quote:

HONDA Accord V6, 3.0 Litre VTEC Eng., Automatic (1997-2004)
CRANKCASE
MOBIL 1 5W-50 or MOBIL Synthetic S 10W-40 or MOBIL SUPER S 10W-40 or MOBIL XHP PLUS 15w40 or MOBIL SUPER XHP 20W-50
Capacity 4.4* Litres

Australian Accord 3.0 V6
20w50 in Australia and we are supposed to stick to 5w20 in the same engine made on the same assembly line? Either this is the most vesatile engine in the world and oil weight absolutely does not matter or none of these engines will ever see 300k miles.

buster · May 17, 2005

quote:

I didn't know if it was worth paying $6/quart.....

If your buying Amsoil, you should buy it through a BITOG sponsor or order with a preferred customer discount, otherwise your getting ripped the **** off. I've seen Amsoil in upstate NY at the retail level and was blown away how expensive it was.

With the new GF-4 specs, I see ZERO reason to buy Amsoil 5w-20. Not a bargain anymore. Use Mobil 1 5w-20 and call it a day.

ne_plus_ultra_1 · May 18, 2005

Interestingly, I found the most technical data that I am currently able to absorb easily was from the ferrari guy.

I dont know how to quote correctly yet so please forgive.

The

quote:

A 40 wt oil with a sump temp of 300 F is thinner than a 20 wt oil with a sump temp of 200 F.

Huh, well my old cop car crown vic has a oil heater/cooler which is connected to the lower radiator hose. Hmm, I could glue a sensor somewhere or tap a hole as it may be good to know the oil temp.

I remember in the book Drive It Forever, the author had a chart of metal wear at certain engine temps and I think it was like 180 to 200 that had he least wear, I'll have to go to the library and review it.

Hmm, 200 degrees oil sump in FL is pretty low I think. Ferraris have oil cooler?

I drive pretty hard every now and then although with the lousy traffic in FL not too often but it would be good to know oil temps, particularly on my wifes car which sees the throttle depressed regularly.

Hmm...

Ken4 · May 18, 2005

I am a 5w20 user in a year-round tropical coastal hot & humid climate. Ambient temps commonly go as high as 36C. My used oil analysis show that 20wts are no problem on my toyota.

ex_MGB · May 18, 2005

The U.S. auto market dwarfs the Aus/Phil market. Turning the argument on its tail, obviously Honda would optimize design of their engine for the U.S. market and the recommended 5W-20 oil.

They would then simply recommend the higher vis in the Aus/Phil market simply for marketing reasons.

Ken4 · May 18, 2005

It is not only marketing. Too many mechanics, technicians and the general public here still have that old-school mentallity that thicker is better. You commonly find 20w50s being used in toyotas and hondas with puny little 4cyl engines. When a customer brings his own Castrol SLX 0w30 for his mechanic to use, the mechanic will scare the customer by giving comments like 'it is so thin, it is like water'. We will just have to wait another 10~20 years for this generation to retire before we see 5w20 on the shelves.

jtantare · May 18, 2005

Lets talk about old school mentality.

quote:

You commonly find 20w50s being used in toyotas and Hondas with puny little 4cyl engines

So oil weight is dependent on capacity and number of cylinders? Wow, VW must be insane to recommend 0w40 in everything from 1.4 litre 4 banger to a 4.2 litre V8. So i guess oil weight has nothing to do with bearing loads, ring seal, operating temp and oil pressure anymore.

quote:

The U.S. auto market dwarfs the Aus/Phil market. Turning the argument on its tail, obviously Honda would optimize design of their engine for the U.S. market and the recommended 5W-20 oil.

They would then simply recommend the higher vis in the Aus/Phil market simply for marketing reasons."

What marketing reasons? Are the people in those markets too stupid to use the oil recommended in the owner's manual? Please expain.

Its funny how all the pro 5w20 at all temp arguments like to ignore the white elephant in the room: CAFE
I guess its just a coincidence that CAFE and "5w20 at all temps" mentality only exist in the north American market.
The best argument you could make for 5w20 is oil weight doesn't matter for these Honda engines. Anything from a 5w20 to a 20w50 will work. The engine is that good. But which oil is better in the long term health of the engine?

Ken4 · May 18, 2005

5w20s for all temps are also recommended for Toyotas in Japan. This is taken from a 2002 toyota 2.4L 2AZ-FE owners manual:

5-20 in stinky hot weather

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