4l80e rebuild on a suburban
- Thread starter kawan
- Start date
Originally Posted By: kawan
I answer to my questions, I also just read somewhere where you posted the following: (I can try that was well. I did not realize that I could stack 2 steels together))
On the Direct Clutch I use TH400 Aluminum Pistons, While omiting the Wave on a 5-Clutch set-up.....
I stack 2 .077" Steels against the Piston
Friction
.090" Steel
Friction
.090" Steel
Friction
.090" Steel
Friction
.090" Steel
Friction
Pressure Plate
This usually yields .050" Clearance which is perfect Direct clearance.
That set-up is for performance cars with high stall converters, I do not recommend omitting the wave plate with a stock stall....Unless you can live with a harsh 3rd & Reverse apply.
I answer to my questions, I also just read somewhere where you posted the following: (I can try that was well. I did not realize that I could stack 2 steels together))
On the Direct Clutch I use TH400 Aluminum Pistons, While omiting the Wave on a 5-Clutch set-up.....
I stack 2 .077" Steels against the Piston
Friction
.090" Steel
Friction
.090" Steel
Friction
.090" Steel
Friction
.090" Steel
Friction
Pressure Plate
This usually yields .050" Clearance which is perfect Direct clearance.
That set-up is for performance cars with high stall converters, I do not recommend omitting the wave plate with a stock stall....Unless you can live with a harsh 3rd & Reverse apply.
Try this....
Wave Plate
.077" steel
.077" steel
Friction
.077" steel
Friction
.077" steel
Friction
.077" steel
Friction
.090" steel
Friction
Backing Plate
.075" direct clearance WILL RUN! As will .035" forward clearance if not using a PTO or backing trailers for miles. But I do recommend tightening the directs as the friction will compress a little in service.
Wave Plate
.077" steel
.077" steel
Friction
.077" steel
Friction
.077" steel
Friction
.077" steel
Friction
.090" steel
Friction
Backing Plate
.075" direct clearance WILL RUN! As will .035" forward clearance if not using a PTO or backing trailers for miles. But I do recommend tightening the directs as the friction will compress a little in service.
Originally Posted By: kawan
So option D is out.
Just know there are effects to omitting the wave plate!
So option D is out.
Just know there are effects to omitting the wave plate!
Still loose. If I try
Wave Plate
.090" steel
.090" steel
Friction
.077" steel
Friction
.077" steel
Friction
.077" steel
Friction
.090" steel
Friction
Backing Plate
It tightens up to about 0.065". I really have to force in the feeler gauge to get this, so maybe bit a tad less than 0.065. (and I change the setup so I have 2 frictions together , steel and then back plate to measure the clearance, so i don't mar up the friction as you suggested with the feeler gauge)
Wave Plate
.090" steel
.090" steel
Friction
.077" steel
Friction
.077" steel
Friction
.077" steel
Friction
.090" steel
Friction
Backing Plate
It tightens up to about 0.065". I really have to force in the feeler gauge to get this, so maybe bit a tad less than 0.065. (and I change the setup so I have 2 frictions together , steel and then back plate to measure the clearance, so i don't mar up the friction as you suggested with the feeler gauge)
.060"-.065" is great!! Run it.
1) Just as an FYI : I checked the clearance with about 80psi of air, I get about 45 thousandths. With the feeler gauge I was getting about 60 to 65 thousandths. So I am guessing that is fine. I am probably some where in between.
2) On the valve body, should I block the 3rd accumulator with a set screw. Not sure that buys me and if it worth doing.
3) Also as an FYI , early on when I was trying to remove some of the the bushings, I did not want to destroy them in the removal process so I came up with this idea. Posted it on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tck1oFuJR24
2) On the valve body, should I block the 3rd accumulator with a set screw. Not sure that buys me and if it worth doing.
3) Also as an FYI , early on when I was trying to remove some of the the bushings, I did not want to destroy them in the removal process so I came up with this idea. Posted it on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tck1oFuJR24
If your Dual Feeding the Directs.....Plug the 3rd Accumulator Feed, If not.....Leave it active.
Very inventive way to remove blind bushings! Thanks for sharing.
I use a Half Round Nose Cape Chisel to grab the edge of the Bushing & drive it down on one end....The bushing will pop right out.
On wider blind bushings (Like the Reaction Carrier Bushing) I use the same chisel to "Part" the bushing.
Very inventive way to remove blind bushings! Thanks for sharing.
I use a Half Round Nose Cape Chisel to grab the edge of the Bushing & drive it down on one end....The bushing will pop right out.
On wider blind bushings (Like the Reaction Carrier Bushing) I use the same chisel to "Part" the bushing.
I am dual feeding the direct clutch - so I will go ahead and plug the 3rd accumulator feed as you mentioned. 5/16-18 as mentioned somewhere.
I am glad to share the bushing removal idea - I have long obtained countless ideas and help from the internet and forums for rebuilding my engines and now the transmission.
I am glad to share the bushing removal idea - I have long obtained countless ideas and help from the internet and forums for rebuilding my engines and now the transmission.
This is a 4x4 . Read somewhere that on 4x4 applications to leave the accumulator functional to reduce shock loading the t-case.
Not sure how much the t-case would be affected over time. Should I still plug the 3rd accumulator? Can you also tell me what is the length of the set screw you used? Thanks!
Not sure how much the t-case would be affected over time. Should I still plug the 3rd accumulator? Can you also tell me what is the length of the set screw you used? Thanks!
You can also use a M8-1.25 set screw if that's easier to find. It doesn't need to be very long....5/16"-5/8" long is fine.
Using a wave plate in the direct drum & not going crazy with the 3rd clutch feed orifice will keep your T-case alive. (Don't go over .100" on the feed hole) .093" is what I would recommend.
The extra fluid volume you add to the 3rd clutch circuit by dual feeding acts as a Accumulator.
Using a wave plate in the direct drum & not going crazy with the 3rd clutch feed orifice will keep your T-case alive. (Don't go over .100" on the feed hole) .093" is what I would recommend.
The extra fluid volume you add to the 3rd clutch circuit by dual feeding acts as a Accumulator.
Ok. I will plug the 3rd accumulator.
While I have you online, 2 more questions. Sorry to keep beating on this stack up.
1) The 4th clutch bolt broke on me 2 times while trying to get it to about 18ft-lbs. Maybe I need to check the torque wrench for accuracy. Do you have that happening to you? The GM manual says to have it horizontal and then tighten. I had it vertical , not sure it that causes it to break easier. So I got 2 more bolts and would like to verify before i do the same thing and break it again.
2) I don't mean to be paranoid about the stack-up on the direct drum but here goes:
a) I have this stack up with 0.060 to 0.065 clearance.
0.068 wave
0.090 steel
0.090 steel
friction
0.077 steel
friction
0.077 steel
friction
0.077 steel
friction
0.090 steel
friction
pressure plate
b) That wave plate makes it but I feel a thicker plate will have less chance of getting into the bottom ridge. Looks close, not going in now but over time will it wear ?
So I can do this and get the same 0.004 difference theoretically.
The steel and wave got swapped just to get margin on getting stuck. I think that will have the same effect but you know more. yes /no?
The 0.137 steel is 2 steels stacked 0.077 & 0.060. Advisable?
I also prefer this as all the steels are thicker.
0.090 steel
0.068 wave
friction
0.137 steel
friction
0.090 steel
friction
0.090 steel
friction
0.090 steel
friction
pressure plate
While I have you online, 2 more questions. Sorry to keep beating on this stack up.
1) The 4th clutch bolt broke on me 2 times while trying to get it to about 18ft-lbs. Maybe I need to check the torque wrench for accuracy. Do you have that happening to you? The GM manual says to have it horizontal and then tighten. I had it vertical , not sure it that causes it to break easier. So I got 2 more bolts and would like to verify before i do the same thing and break it again.
2) I don't mean to be paranoid about the stack-up on the direct drum but here goes:
a) I have this stack up with 0.060 to 0.065 clearance.
0.068 wave
0.090 steel
0.090 steel
friction
0.077 steel
friction
0.077 steel
friction
0.077 steel
friction
0.090 steel
friction
pressure plate
b) That wave plate makes it but I feel a thicker plate will have less chance of getting into the bottom ridge. Looks close, not going in now but over time will it wear ?
So I can do this and get the same 0.004 difference theoretically.
The steel and wave got swapped just to get margin on getting stuck. I think that will have the same effect but you know more. yes /no?
The 0.137 steel is 2 steels stacked 0.077 & 0.060. Advisable?
I also prefer this as all the steels are thicker.
0.090 steel
0.068 wave
friction
0.137 steel
friction
0.090 steel
friction
0.090 steel
friction
0.090 steel
friction
pressure plate
What about this.....
.077" Steel
.068" Wave
.077" Steel
Friction
.090" Steel
Friction
.090" Steel
Friction
.090" Steel
Friction
.077" Steel
Friction
Backing Plate
The piston will never get lower in the the drum, So no concerns of wear causing the Wave to slip under the ridge. Now if the Wave were to break it could slip under the ridge if enough clearance is there.
The 4th clutch housing bolt is a little weak & doesn't tolerate being over torqued.....I think the spec is 17 ft lbs. And if I posted in wrong somewhere I'll send you a new bolt.
Your torque wrench may be out of calibration or may not be accurate in lower settings.
I just use a compact 3/8" Ratchet & tighten it to about 13-15 ft lbs using my elbow torque wrench. You can feel this bolt get "rubbery" right when you need to stop!
I always 100% torque the center support bolt with a good torque wrench to 32 ft lbs.
.077" Steel
.068" Wave
.077" Steel
Friction
.090" Steel
Friction
.090" Steel
Friction
.090" Steel
Friction
.077" Steel
Friction
Backing Plate
The piston will never get lower in the the drum, So no concerns of wear causing the Wave to slip under the ridge. Now if the Wave were to break it could slip under the ridge if enough clearance is there.
The 4th clutch housing bolt is a little weak & doesn't tolerate being over torqued.....I think the spec is 17 ft lbs. And if I posted in wrong somewhere I'll send you a new bolt.
Your torque wrench may be out of calibration or may not be accurate in lower settings.
I just use a compact 3/8" Ratchet & tighten it to about 13-15 ft lbs using my elbow torque wrench. You can feel this bolt get "rubbery" right when you need to stop!
I always 100% torque the center support bolt with a good torque wrench to 32 ft lbs.
Yes that stack will work .. I will try it , hopefully I have enough new 0.077 steels lying around. The old ones look in good shape, so maybe I can re-use them.
As for the center support bolt, I did get it to 32 ft-lbs
I will check my torque wrench again for the 4th clutch bolt. Th GM spec is 17 to 19 ft-lbs. i must be over-torquing it then.
Thanks
As for the center support bolt, I did get it to 32 ft-lbs
I will check my torque wrench again for the 4th clutch bolt. Th GM spec is 17 to 19 ft-lbs. i must be over-torquing it then.
Thanks
On the separator plate, I ordered the Transgo 48-PLT-01 sometime back (transtar #A34747U). I think it the same as a stock plate - as far as hole sizes are concerned. But I am not sure if the Transgo plate is modified to accommodate their shift kits
Or should I just get a stock GM plate?
Can you confirm if the following still holds ( I picked it up from one of your threads http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=668062)
2nd Feed Hole, .085" to .125"
3rd Feed Hole, .093 to .150"
4th Feed Hole, .085 to .093"
And when you said to be conservative, did you mean to lean towards the large size hole or the smaller?
I assume these are the only mods on the plate.
The solenoids tested ok for ohms - so I am reuse them.
Thanks again!
So far in summary:
I finished building up the core of the transmission. Forget to check the front clearance. Will do that tonight.
did the dual feed
rollerize output. rear end clearance ~ 8 thousandths
dish plates replaced with wave plates
used Sonnax 4L80E-LB1
Aluminum TH400 Direct Piston, Retainer & High Rate return springs
Aluminum forward piston replaced with a Steel/Bonded '97
AFL bore wear: Moved the AFL valve 3/16" from the bottom of the bore & wiggle the valve - feels fine to me so I left it alone
Plugged the 3rd accumulator with 5/16 set screw.
Or should I just get a stock GM plate?
Can you confirm if the following still holds ( I picked it up from one of your threads http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=668062)
2nd Feed Hole, .085" to .125"
3rd Feed Hole, .093 to .150"
4th Feed Hole, .085 to .093"
And when you said to be conservative, did you mean to lean towards the large size hole or the smaller?
I assume these are the only mods on the plate.
The solenoids tested ok for ohms - so I am reuse them.
Thanks again!
So far in summary:
I finished building up the core of the transmission. Forget to check the front clearance. Will do that tonight.
did the dual feed
rollerize output. rear end clearance ~ 8 thousandths
dish plates replaced with wave plates
used Sonnax 4L80E-LB1
Aluminum TH400 Direct Piston, Retainer & High Rate return springs
Aluminum forward piston replaced with a Steel/Bonded '97
AFL bore wear: Moved the AFL valve 3/16" from the bottom of the bore & wiggle the valve - feels fine to me so I left it alone
Plugged the 3rd accumulator with 5/16 set screw.
Clutch feed sizes vary from vehicle to vehicle. Application & Converter stall speed are HUGE factors!!
With a stock stall in a heavy truck with the mods listed......Drill all 3 clutch feed orifices to .093".
With a stock stall in a heavy truck with the mods listed......Drill all 3 clutch feed orifices to .093".
The Transgo 48-PLT-01 is a replacement plate, The Clutch Feed Orifices are usually SMALLER than stock as it's easier to make a hole larger than smaller, All the other "critical" holes are same as stock.
The only "shift kit" plate Transgo has for this unit is included in the HD2/HD3 shift kits.
The only "shift kit" plate Transgo has for this unit is included in the HD2/HD3 shift kits.
