3mz-fe catastrophic new cam seal failure

[Kurtatron]

I changed the timing belt 2 months ago on this Lexus. The work included the two cam seals.

I had done this job on a 1MZ before and had no problems with that job.

What could have gone wrong? I used a pvc pipe to perfectly install the seal just like the Toyota tool.

I don’t remember if I applied any lubricant to the seals prior to install. I think I skipped that because I read somewhere to install them dry.

It sucks because I have to do this job again.

 

[supton]

PCV? pressure not being released properly, thus it blew out the weakest seal?

 

[Kurtatron]

PCV? pressure not being released properly, thus it blew out the weakest seal?

I just replaced it with a new OEM pcv. Unless there is some cap or plug I didn’t notice, I don’t think it was that.

 

[Astro14]

Looks like the lip was torn on installation and failed there. No lubrication on the outside, but absolutely a thin film of oil on the lip to help it slide over the cam without tearing.

 

[Oliveoil2]

Looks like the lip was torn on installation and failed there. No lubrication on the outside, but absolutely a thin film of oil on the lip to help it slide over the cam without tearing.

This^^^. Bummer. Try again. The seal needs to be oiled before installation. No sealant needed.

 

[The_Eric]

Looks like the lip was torn on installation and failed there. No lubrication on the outside, but absolutely a thin film of oil on the lip to help it slide over the cam without tearing.

On typical rubber lipped seals, yes always lube. However some newer PTFE seals specifically state not to lube - at least to my eye they're pretty easy to spot, so even if they're not labeled you can tell what they are and install dry.

 

[Mechanician]

I found a guide that states the PTFE seals should sit for several hours before starting. Learned something new.

 

[FordP3]

Wow that is VERY interesting about the settling time for the PTFE seals. I could see if it was very cold when the job was done and having a problem but in normal temps I would think with a few minutes you could start the car. That's pretty nuts.

Problem with people is they seem to rarely THOROUGHLY read instructions for things like this job...sorry for the redo.

 

[Mainia]

That is not a "settling time problem" that looks like a mechanical, "not mechanically install correctly screw up.

 

[The_Eric]

That's curious about the settling time as I've never seen any instructions included with PTFE seals that state it needs to be done.

 

[D60]

That's curious about the settling time as I've never seen any instructions included with PTFE seals that state it needs to be done.

Techs should demand four hours added to flat rate. Procedures like this are stupid ‐‐ who has the time? Furthermore, unless you finish a customer's car by ~noon, they can't pick it up before COB

 

[Mechanician]

I'm not sure this would apply to all PTFE seals, I found that when searching for PTFE seals installation instructions.
I've never heard of installing a seal dry. And this caught my attention - as I never would have guessed that.

 

[Trav]

That's curious about the settling time as I've never seen any instructions included with PTFE seals that state it needs to be done.

The waiting time is the norm not the exception, not following the instructions to the letter is the reason for so many repeat leaks after installing the PTFE seal. From Elring Klinger...

https://www.elring.com/CELUM/10008/10019/TSI09-2011_englisch.pdf

 

[The_Eric]

I must be fortunate as many of the seals that I replace are sold as part of a bigger job and oftentimes it takes that much or more before the engine is ready to be started. I'll store that in the back of my head though.

 

[Mechanician]

Techs should demand four hours added to flat rate. Procedures like this are stupid ‐‐ who has the time? Furthermore, unless you finish a customer's car by ~noon, they can't pick it up before COB

Corporate management often doesn't consider the real world in their decisions.
There have been many procedures that require a vehicle to sit for a period of time.
Example: a software update that takes an hour to complete, and the procedure only pays enough time to hook up the equipment, and verify proper completion of the update afterwards.
When an inquiry is made as to how this is to be accomplished, the answer always involves using a "spare work bay" that doesn't exist.
When the lack there of is pointed out, it's not their concern that your employer doesn't provide such extra spaces.

 

[Kurtatron]

How do I know a seal is ptfe?

 

[clinebarger]

To my knowledge....Toyota doesn't use PTFE lip seals.

 

[Chris142]

Looks like the lip was torn on installation and failed there. No lubrication on the outside, but absolutely a thin film of oil on the lip to help it slide over the cam without tearing.

That's my though too. Tore on install.

When I put a rear main in my truck I used a McDonald's cup to slide the new seal over the crank shaft without damaging it. Wonder if something similar could be done here?

 

[clinebarger]

I use a Lip Wizard.

 

[Mechanician]

How do I know a seal is ptfe?

From what I've read - no experience here - the PTFE seals have no spring.
Open the link from @Trav and there's an illustration of the lips in that.
It does appear to be very important to use a tool, to get the lips safely over the shaft.