3000 mile oil change? Not so fast, experts say
- Thread starter tenderloin
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
Nothing wrong with following the OLM. Only problem I see is when people use it as a dummy gauge in place of the old school routine that the service manuals still dictate.
When was the last time you saw anyone check their tire pressure and fluids while at the self-service pump? The few times I've seen it done were by cab drivers, whose living depends on their vehicle needing to go anywhere, anytime, and down time is also lost income.
Due to an on-call schedule, I am similarly religious about doing this every fill-up (at a minimum) - but I also consider my car a sound investment that has the potential to pay for itself through years of hassle free performance.
Most treat it like an appliance, and put as much thought and care into it. No need to check the oil level, because the dummy gauge will tell them when its low (or so they think).
Edit: it'll be interesting to see how the attempts at using technology to idiot proof have paid off when these cars are 10 or 15 years old. My prediction: not well.
-Spyder
"Nothing wrong with following the OLM. Only problem I see is when people use it as a dummy gauge in place of the old school routine that the service manuals still dictate."
You obviously don't understand the Oil LIfe Monitor. It does NOT take the place of normal checking under the hood. It is an algorithm that monitors engine revolutions, temp. start/stop cycles, etc. The OLM (GM's at least) doesn't have a clue what type of oil is in the engine or if there is ANY oil at all.
The owner's manual for my GM vehicle states to check the oil and various fluids every other fill up. It states to follow the OLM unless it does NOT come on in a years time, in which case then change the oil and reset the monitor. There is no mention of mileage or "severe" service. That the beauty of the OLM it takes all the "severe" factors into account. If I do a lot of city driving in cold weather or tow a trailer for long distance the light comes on much sooner.
If I go mostly long trips on the freeway it takes much longer for it to come on.
Just because you don't see people checking their tire pressure at the gas station doesn't mean they don't do it. Like someone else said I do mine at home - along with the rest of the fluids on all 4 of my vehicles.
Follow me on a 1200 or more mile trip and you will see me checking fluids and my tire pressure very frequently - sometimes at gas stations, sometimes at roadside rests, sometimes at hotels in the morning.
And actually in regards to your remark: "it'll be interesting to see how the attempts at using technology to idiot proof have paid off when these cars are 10 or 15 years old. My prediction: not well."
The one person I mentioned with over 150,000 miles on his GM vehicle (using the OLM for up to 12K miles OCI) - his vehicle is a 2003. That makes it what 8+ years old? Is that close enough to 10?
Old habits and thinking sure die hard!
Nothing wrong with following the OLM. Only problem I see is when people use it as a dummy gauge in place of the old school routine that the service manuals still dictate.
When was the last time you saw anyone check their tire pressure and fluids while at the self-service pump? The few times I've seen it done were by cab drivers, whose living depends on their vehicle needing to go anywhere, anytime, and down time is also lost income.
Due to an on-call schedule, I am similarly religious about doing this every fill-up (at a minimum) - but I also consider my car a sound investment that has the potential to pay for itself through years of hassle free performance.
Most treat it like an appliance, and put as much thought and care into it. No need to check the oil level, because the dummy gauge will tell them when its low (or so they think).
Edit: it'll be interesting to see how the attempts at using technology to idiot proof have paid off when these cars are 10 or 15 years old. My prediction: not well.
-Spyder
"Nothing wrong with following the OLM. Only problem I see is when people use it as a dummy gauge in place of the old school routine that the service manuals still dictate."
You obviously don't understand the Oil LIfe Monitor. It does NOT take the place of normal checking under the hood. It is an algorithm that monitors engine revolutions, temp. start/stop cycles, etc. The OLM (GM's at least) doesn't have a clue what type of oil is in the engine or if there is ANY oil at all.
The owner's manual for my GM vehicle states to check the oil and various fluids every other fill up. It states to follow the OLM unless it does NOT come on in a years time, in which case then change the oil and reset the monitor. There is no mention of mileage or "severe" service. That the beauty of the OLM it takes all the "severe" factors into account. If I do a lot of city driving in cold weather or tow a trailer for long distance the light comes on much sooner.
If I go mostly long trips on the freeway it takes much longer for it to come on.
Just because you don't see people checking their tire pressure at the gas station doesn't mean they don't do it. Like someone else said I do mine at home - along with the rest of the fluids on all 4 of my vehicles.
Follow me on a 1200 or more mile trip and you will see me checking fluids and my tire pressure very frequently - sometimes at gas stations, sometimes at roadside rests, sometimes at hotels in the morning.
And actually in regards to your remark: "it'll be interesting to see how the attempts at using technology to idiot proof have paid off when these cars are 10 or 15 years old. My prediction: not well."
The one person I mentioned with over 150,000 miles on his GM vehicle (using the OLM for up to 12K miles OCI) - his vehicle is a 2003. That makes it what 8+ years old? Is that close enough to 10?
Old habits and thinking sure die hard!
Originally Posted By: FZ1
I like the 6 months oci. About 4500 on mine every 6 months. I want clean oil in for the winter.
I started doing that a while back on 2 vehicles, June and December, it works very well with my under warranty Jeep. On occasion I'll cheat and do a virtual OC.
I might try a 9 month OCI for my work van, splitting the difference between 6 months and the 1 year OCI I was doing. I'm driving it a bit more now, 6 months is wasteful and 1 year is a bit too long IMO. I fall under severe service. Many people fall under severe service and don't even realize it, which could be why so many people have sludge issues. JMO
I like the 6 months oci. About 4500 on mine every 6 months. I want clean oil in for the winter.
I started doing that a while back on 2 vehicles, June and December, it works very well with my under warranty Jeep. On occasion I'll cheat and do a virtual OC.
I might try a 9 month OCI for my work van, splitting the difference between 6 months and the 1 year OCI I was doing. I'm driving it a bit more now, 6 months is wasteful and 1 year is a bit too long IMO. I fall under severe service. Many people fall under severe service and don't even realize it, which could be why so many people have sludge issues. JMO
This is nothing new. GM, Ford and the California Integrated Waste Management Board have been pushing to reduce the wasteful practice of 3,000-mile oil changes for years.
And many of the UOAs on this board go past 3,000-miles without issue in many different vehicle types under many different driving habits.
The real brainwashing as it would seem is the quick change industry, the oil industry, and some parts stores that have big banners above their oil section that say to change your oil every 3,000-miles.
And many of the UOAs on this board go past 3,000-miles without issue in many different vehicle types under many different driving habits.
The real brainwashing as it would seem is the quick change industry, the oil industry, and some parts stores that have big banners above their oil section that say to change your oil every 3,000-miles.
Originally Posted By: oldmaninsc
"Nothing wrong with following the OLM. Only problem I see is when people use it as a dummy gauge in place of the old school routine that the service manuals still dictate."
You obviously don't understand the Oil LIfe Monitor. It does NOT take the place of normal checking under the hood. It is an algorithm that monitors engine revolutions, temp. start/stop cycles, etc. The OLM (GM's at least) doesn't have a clue what type of oil is in the engine or if there is ANY oil at all.
The owner's manual for my GM vehicle states to check the oil and various fluids every other fill up. It states to follow the OLM unless it does NOT come on in a years time, in which case then change the oil and reset the monitor. There is no mention of mileage or "severe" service. That the beauty of the OLM it takes all the "severe" factors into account. If I do a lot of city driving in cold weather or tow a trailer for long distance the light comes on much sooner.
If I go mostly long trips on the freeway it takes much longer for it to come on.
Just because you don't see people checking their tire pressure at the gas station doesn't mean they don't do it. Like someone else said I do mine at home - along with the rest of the fluids on all 4 of my vehicles.
Follow me on a 1200 or more mile trip and you will see me checking fluids and my tire pressure very frequently - sometimes at gas stations, sometimes at roadside rests, sometimes at hotels in the morning.
And actually in regards to your remark: "it'll be interesting to see how the attempts at using technology to idiot proof have paid off when these cars are 10 or 15 years old. My prediction: not well."
The one person I mentioned with over 150,000 miles on his GM vehicle (using the OLM for up to 12K miles OCI) - his vehicle is a 2003. That makes it what 8+ years old? Is that close enough to 10?
Old habits and thinking sure die hard!
You missed the point while stating exactly what I was getting at, at the same time: the OLM doesn't know how much oil is in the car, or if its leaking it like a garden hose on jet; people don't realize this and simply follow the OLM without ever checking the level themselves. Hence the reference to it as a dummy gauge.
I tend to check this stuff at home too. But we are not a representative sample of the population I was referring to, so I still stand by my comments.
"Nothing wrong with following the OLM. Only problem I see is when people use it as a dummy gauge in place of the old school routine that the service manuals still dictate."
You obviously don't understand the Oil LIfe Monitor. It does NOT take the place of normal checking under the hood. It is an algorithm that monitors engine revolutions, temp. start/stop cycles, etc. The OLM (GM's at least) doesn't have a clue what type of oil is in the engine or if there is ANY oil at all.
The owner's manual for my GM vehicle states to check the oil and various fluids every other fill up. It states to follow the OLM unless it does NOT come on in a years time, in which case then change the oil and reset the monitor. There is no mention of mileage or "severe" service. That the beauty of the OLM it takes all the "severe" factors into account. If I do a lot of city driving in cold weather or tow a trailer for long distance the light comes on much sooner.
If I go mostly long trips on the freeway it takes much longer for it to come on.
Just because you don't see people checking their tire pressure at the gas station doesn't mean they don't do it. Like someone else said I do mine at home - along with the rest of the fluids on all 4 of my vehicles.
Follow me on a 1200 or more mile trip and you will see me checking fluids and my tire pressure very frequently - sometimes at gas stations, sometimes at roadside rests, sometimes at hotels in the morning.
And actually in regards to your remark: "it'll be interesting to see how the attempts at using technology to idiot proof have paid off when these cars are 10 or 15 years old. My prediction: not well."
The one person I mentioned with over 150,000 miles on his GM vehicle (using the OLM for up to 12K miles OCI) - his vehicle is a 2003. That makes it what 8+ years old? Is that close enough to 10?
Old habits and thinking sure die hard!
You missed the point while stating exactly what I was getting at, at the same time: the OLM doesn't know how much oil is in the car, or if its leaking it like a garden hose on jet; people don't realize this and simply follow the OLM without ever checking the level themselves. Hence the reference to it as a dummy gauge.
I tend to check this stuff at home too. But we are not a representative sample of the population I was referring to, so I still stand by my comments.
3K is way too often for almost everyone using the oils we now have available.
Now, pushing for the ultimate mile on an OCI may not be wise either.
Still, for most people in most uses in most vehicles, 5K or six months will work just fine.
In most uses, 3K is just a waste of oil.
I used to think 3K was optimal, until I found this forum.
There are also some wear disadvantages in too-frequent changes.
Now, pushing for the ultimate mile on an OCI may not be wise either.
Still, for most people in most uses in most vehicles, 5K or six months will work just fine.
In most uses, 3K is just a waste of oil.
I used to think 3K was optimal, until I found this forum.
There are also some wear disadvantages in too-frequent changes.
Care to elaborate on that last sentence - its a new one to me.
-Spyder
-Spyder
Spyder, wear spikes on fresh oil and is reduced in rate as the oil ages. That is the data from the 3MP study.
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
I'm not sure that I agree with this. Most places that work on cars will tell you that there's no money in changing oil.
I guess i was leading more toward sales in stores and on line not service stations.
I'm not sure that I agree with this. Most places that work on cars will tell you that there's no money in changing oil.
I guess i was leading more toward sales in stores and on line not service stations.
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
I'm not sure that I agree with this. Most places that work on cars will tell you that there's no money in changing oil.
I guess i was leading more toward sales in stores and on line not service stations.
I see. It's all good.
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
I'm not sure that I agree with this. Most places that work on cars will tell you that there's no money in changing oil.
I guess i was leading more toward sales in stores and on line not service stations.
I see. It's all good.
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Spyder, wear spikes on fresh oil and is reduced in rate as the oil ages. That is the data from the 3MP study.
Gotcha. New one on me, but the source is credible and its good info to know.
-Spyder
Spyder, wear spikes on fresh oil and is reduced in rate as the oil ages. That is the data from the 3MP study.
Gotcha. New one on me, but the source is credible and its good info to know.
-Spyder
Except it seems all the million mile + engines had their oil changed at Jiffy lube with Fram filters every 3,000 miles.
Everybody is an expert today all it takes is an internet posting . The biggest problem is not being able to discern real from not so real.
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Spyder, wear spikes on fresh oil and is reduced in rate as the oil ages. That is the data from the 3MP study.
Gotcha. New one on me, but the source is credible and its good info to know.
-Spyder
You're not going to insist I "PROVE IT!"
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Spyder, wear spikes on fresh oil and is reduced in rate as the oil ages. That is the data from the 3MP study.
Gotcha. New one on me, but the source is credible and its good info to know.
-Spyder
You're not going to insist I "PROVE IT!"
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Originally Posted By: daman
The main reason 3k is still being pushed to this day is marketing,to sell oil and filters.
if you have severe service or a sluger then yea maybe but 95% of the vehicles on the road it's a waist.
20,000?? dunno about that one tho
I'm not sure that I agree with this. Most places that work on cars will tell you that there's no money in changing oil. The place I work at is no different.
While I disagree with the arbitrary 3k changes that my boss so emphatically recommends (he does it for the "wrong" reasons), I believe it's beneficial to our customers in the end because it means they're at our garage where we can monitor their fluid levels and inspect the rest of their cars and warn them of potential issues before they get to be a danger to the driver or the cause an expensive repair.
There's "no money" in it for the garage in terms of profit on the oil change. That much is true. The oil and filter companies are still making a profit.
That said, from a shop owner's perspective, the cheap oil change is simply a loss leader to get the car into the shop and on the lift. Once it's there, any mechanic worth his salt is going to inspect the brakes, hoses, belts, tires, suspension, fluid leaks, exhaust, etc. So that cheap oil change might lead to a number of other much more profitable jobs.
Best,
Originally Posted By: daman
The main reason 3k is still being pushed to this day is marketing,to sell oil and filters.
if you have severe service or a sluger then yea maybe but 95% of the vehicles on the road it's a waist.
20,000?? dunno about that one tho
I'm not sure that I agree with this. Most places that work on cars will tell you that there's no money in changing oil. The place I work at is no different.
While I disagree with the arbitrary 3k changes that my boss so emphatically recommends (he does it for the "wrong" reasons), I believe it's beneficial to our customers in the end because it means they're at our garage where we can monitor their fluid levels and inspect the rest of their cars and warn them of potential issues before they get to be a danger to the driver or the cause an expensive repair.
There's "no money" in it for the garage in terms of profit on the oil change. That much is true. The oil and filter companies are still making a profit.
That said, from a shop owner's perspective, the cheap oil change is simply a loss leader to get the car into the shop and on the lift. Once it's there, any mechanic worth his salt is going to inspect the brakes, hoses, belts, tires, suspension, fluid leaks, exhaust, etc. So that cheap oil change might lead to a number of other much more profitable jobs.
Best,
Only issue I see it most people dont change the oil every 3000, they neglect it and do it when they get around to it. I bet it works out to about 5-6K before they get around to it. Now they will target 6000 and get around to it at 9000 when it is two qts low LOL
Oh, I love the news story, the "experts" at Emdunds LOL, yea real experts all right!
Oh, I love the news story, the "experts" at Emdunds LOL, yea real experts all right!
At least in my area, there's a pretty good chunk of people who do change at 3k. I'd say the bulk of our "regular" customers come back in the 2500-3500 mile range for a service. That's where we will give the car a good once over, top off the levels and let the customer know about any trouble areas.
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Spyder, wear spikes on fresh oil and is reduced in rate as the oil ages. That is the data from the 3MP study.
Not asking you to prove it (lol) but interested - is it due to dry start after an oil change? What causes the oil to get better as it ages?
Spyder, wear spikes on fresh oil and is reduced in rate as the oil ages. That is the data from the 3MP study.
Not asking you to prove it (lol) but interested - is it due to dry start after an oil change? What causes the oil to get better as it ages?
I guess I would be the odd sheep here... as I don't maintain my car as well as many of you here seem to do !! I do NOT check the dipstick at every fill up, and many times not even once a week.. yet I put on a lot of miles during the week. I try to get the most money I can out of my oil purchase, and filter, however I also want to protect my engine, so I follow the manufacture recommended schedule, and dictate that to be non severe at around 10k with a filter change every other oil change when running conventional.
Those wanting to see million mile engines on dine or synthetic I don't see the point. A million mile engine means nothing to me as i don't plan on keeping my car, or engine for a million miles. All of the conventional, synthetic, 3k or 10k changes mean nothing... it's helpful to give information to others on how you or I go about an OCI, however those of us that have been here for a week or so have pretty much will not change how they go about maintaining their car.
I for one think looking at the manufactures owners manual is the best place to start, and if you drive somewhere between severe/non severe meet in the middle, non severe do the non severe.. It's not to hard in my opinion to pick out a schedule for oil change.. If a special circumstance arises then by all means rise to the occasion either way more or less miles..
and last but not least saying 3k OCI does not hurt anything well pushing that towards others that do not have your unique circumstances may well indeed cause another to spend money needles.. When talking about clean engines, million milers, or whatever 3k changes will not get you there any more than a 12k change if the oil is still good in the engine at 12k.
Those wanting to see million mile engines on dine or synthetic I don't see the point. A million mile engine means nothing to me as i don't plan on keeping my car, or engine for a million miles. All of the conventional, synthetic, 3k or 10k changes mean nothing... it's helpful to give information to others on how you or I go about an OCI, however those of us that have been here for a week or so have pretty much will not change how they go about maintaining their car.
I for one think looking at the manufactures owners manual is the best place to start, and if you drive somewhere between severe/non severe meet in the middle, non severe do the non severe.. It's not to hard in my opinion to pick out a schedule for oil change.. If a special circumstance arises then by all means rise to the occasion either way more or less miles..
and last but not least saying 3k OCI does not hurt anything well pushing that towards others that do not have your unique circumstances may well indeed cause another to spend money needles.. When talking about clean engines, million milers, or whatever 3k changes will not get you there any more than a 12k change if the oil is still good in the engine at 12k.
Wait, let me get this right, you run a 10k OCI and change the filter every OTHER oil change? So 20k on a filter? What filters are you running?
Am I the only one who is baffled by this? What car is it that the manufacturer says 20k on an oil filter?
Am I the only one who is baffled by this? What car is it that the manufacturer says 20k on an oil filter?
Last edited:
- Status