Seeing as how terrible some people can be when they are told certain things. I'm okay with people who over zealously change their oil.
3000 mile oil change? Not so fast, experts say
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Oil is cheap. Change it when you feel like it. Just don't pour it into a hole in the back yard or down the sewer drains.
The Oil Change Police are not active in my area, and I'll send them scooting it they do.
The Oil Change Police are not active in my area, and I'll send them scooting it they do.
Originally Posted By: daman
The main reason 3k is still being pushed to this day is marketing,to sell oil and filters.
if you have severe service or a sluger then yea maybe but 95% of the vehicles on the road it's a waist.
20,000?? dunno about that one tho
OEM's don't always recommend 3,000 miles for severe service.
If a severe service recommendation is a 5,000 mile OCI then is there a PROVEN reason why it would be better to shorten it even further? If not then it's just all opinion and opinions are not something that they should be pushing on people
The main reason 3k is still being pushed to this day is marketing,to sell oil and filters.
if you have severe service or a sluger then yea maybe but 95% of the vehicles on the road it's a waist.
20,000?? dunno about that one tho
OEM's don't always recommend 3,000 miles for severe service.
If a severe service recommendation is a 5,000 mile OCI then is there a PROVEN reason why it would be better to shorten it even further? If not then it's just all opinion and opinions are not something that they should be pushing on people
It would be sufficient if people followed the appropriate OEM schedule for whichever schedule their usage falls under. That said, its been proven that changing every 3k won't harm anything.
Where you decide to set the interval is ultimately up to the owner. Majority here know enough to make an informed decision. But we are the minority. Most driver's don't even know what "severe service" is, let alone enough to follow the relevant OCI criteria. So this being the case, I can defend the old 3k rule of thumb (for joe or jill average who doesn't know an oil dipstick from a transmission dipstick) on the basis that its not going to hurt anything to err on more frequent than necessary. And given that this is all too often the only time the fluids are checked, these people are better served by it.
More good would be accomplished by people who write articles like the one this thread was about, if they added it as an addendum to simple old school maintenance that no longer seems to be fashionable these days.
-Spyder
Where you decide to set the interval is ultimately up to the owner. Majority here know enough to make an informed decision. But we are the minority. Most driver's don't even know what "severe service" is, let alone enough to follow the relevant OCI criteria. So this being the case, I can defend the old 3k rule of thumb (for joe or jill average who doesn't know an oil dipstick from a transmission dipstick) on the basis that its not going to hurt anything to err on more frequent than necessary. And given that this is all too often the only time the fluids are checked, these people are better served by it.
More good would be accomplished by people who write articles like the one this thread was about, if they added it as an addendum to simple old school maintenance that no longer seems to be fashionable these days.
-Spyder
Originally Posted By: jorton
I surely do not do 3000 mile o/c in my cars, but don't be critical of those who do. They're protecting their investments, and, it does not hurt their engines. Those who do extended o/c or who follow the oil change sensor may be putting their cars at risk. 3k guys aren't.
Now that is funny! Following the "oil change sensor" is putting their cars at risk? How so? In the case of GM they put a lot of time and money into designing and testing their OLM (Oil Life Monitor). It's one of the few things I think GM did right!
I know someone who follows the OLM completely since buying his vehicle new. It sometimes takes him out to 11K - 12K between oil changes - on dino oil. The vehicle has over 150,000 miles, recently passed CA. smog and is still going strong. But I guess his engine is going to fail anytime now?!!!!
I surely do not do 3000 mile o/c in my cars, but don't be critical of those who do. They're protecting their investments, and, it does not hurt their engines. Those who do extended o/c or who follow the oil change sensor may be putting their cars at risk. 3k guys aren't.
Now that is funny! Following the "oil change sensor" is putting their cars at risk? How so? In the case of GM they put a lot of time and money into designing and testing their OLM (Oil Life Monitor). It's one of the few things I think GM did right!
I know someone who follows the OLM completely since buying his vehicle new. It sometimes takes him out to 11K - 12K between oil changes - on dino oil. The vehicle has over 150,000 miles, recently passed CA. smog and is still going strong. But I guess his engine is going to fail anytime now?!!!!
Originally Posted By: oldmaninsc
Originally Posted By: jorton
I surely do not do 3000 mile o/c in my cars, but don't be critical of those who do. They're protecting their investments, and, it does not hurt their engines. Those who do extended o/c or who follow the oil change sensor may be putting their cars at risk. 3k guys aren't.
Now that is funny! Following the "oil change sensor" is putting their cars at risk? How so? In the case of GM they put a lot of time and money into designing and testing their OLM (Oil Life Monitor). It's one of the few things I think GM did right!
I know someone who follows the OLM completely since buying his vehicle new. It sometimes takes him out to 11K - 12K between oil changes - on dino oil. The vehicle has over 150,000 miles, recently passed CA. smog and is still going strong. But I guess his engine is going to fail anytime now?!!!!
Nothing wrong with following the OLM. Only problem I see is when people use it as a dummy gauge in place of the old school routine that the service manuals still dictate.
When was the last time you saw anyone check their tire pressure and fluids while at the self-service pump? The few times I've seen it done were by cab drivers, whose living depends on their vehicle needing to go anywhere, anytime, and down time is also lost income.
Due to an on-call schedule, I am similarly religious about doing this every fill-up (at a minimum) - but I also consider my car a sound investment that has the potential to pay for itself through years of hassle free performance.
Most treat it like an appliance, and put as much thought and care into it. No need to check the oil level, because the dummy gauge will tell them when its low (or so they think).
Edit: it'll be interesting to see how the attempts at using technology to idiot proof have paid off when these cars are 10 or 15 years old. My prediction: not well.
-Spyder
Originally Posted By: jorton
I surely do not do 3000 mile o/c in my cars, but don't be critical of those who do. They're protecting their investments, and, it does not hurt their engines. Those who do extended o/c or who follow the oil change sensor may be putting their cars at risk. 3k guys aren't.
Now that is funny! Following the "oil change sensor" is putting their cars at risk? How so? In the case of GM they put a lot of time and money into designing and testing their OLM (Oil Life Monitor). It's one of the few things I think GM did right!
I know someone who follows the OLM completely since buying his vehicle new. It sometimes takes him out to 11K - 12K between oil changes - on dino oil. The vehicle has over 150,000 miles, recently passed CA. smog and is still going strong. But I guess his engine is going to fail anytime now?!!!!
Nothing wrong with following the OLM. Only problem I see is when people use it as a dummy gauge in place of the old school routine that the service manuals still dictate.
When was the last time you saw anyone check their tire pressure and fluids while at the self-service pump? The few times I've seen it done were by cab drivers, whose living depends on their vehicle needing to go anywhere, anytime, and down time is also lost income.
Due to an on-call schedule, I am similarly religious about doing this every fill-up (at a minimum) - but I also consider my car a sound investment that has the potential to pay for itself through years of hassle free performance.
Most treat it like an appliance, and put as much thought and care into it. No need to check the oil level, because the dummy gauge will tell them when its low (or so they think).
Edit: it'll be interesting to see how the attempts at using technology to idiot proof have paid off when these cars are 10 or 15 years old. My prediction: not well.
-Spyder
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I change my oil before 5000, but it's usually because I get bored and change it. I start getting the itch to do SOMETHING on my car - and changing the oil gets me by until it's time for something big.
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
I can defend the old 3k rule of thumb (for joe or jill average who doesn't know an oil dipstick from a transmission dipstick) on the basis that its not going to hurt anything to err on more frequent than necessary. And given that this is all too often the only time the fluids are checked, these people are better served by it.
-Spyder
my thoughts exactly. 3k OCI is good for people who never check their oil, and couldn't even pop the hood if their life depended on it. Plus, like many ladies I've dated, if you tell them 3k OCI they will still change it at 5 or later.
I can defend the old 3k rule of thumb (for joe or jill average who doesn't know an oil dipstick from a transmission dipstick) on the basis that its not going to hurt anything to err on more frequent than necessary. And given that this is all too often the only time the fluids are checked, these people are better served by it.
-Spyder
my thoughts exactly. 3k OCI is good for people who never check their oil, and couldn't even pop the hood if their life depended on it. Plus, like many ladies I've dated, if you tell them 3k OCI they will still change it at 5 or later.
For my car, I will be following the warranty severe service of 7500/6 months. The expy and mustang both have mobil 1 oil and filters, and I told my parents to run them to 7500 or so before changing it again. Except in certain circumstances I don't believe in 3m/3k. Not to
or anything, but that rule has been around since the 60s/70s when nearly all oil was Group I
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Originally Posted By: cryption
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
I can defend the old 3k rule of thumb (for joe or jill average who doesn't know an oil dipstick from a transmission dipstick) on the basis that its not going to hurt anything to err on more frequent than necessary. And given that this is all too often the only time the fluids are checked, these people are better served by it.
-Spyder
my thoughts exactly. 3k OCI is good for people who never check their oil, and couldn't even pop the hood if their life depended on it. Plus, like many ladies I've dated, if you tell them 3k OCI they will still change it at 5 or later.
My ex ran hers long after the service light came on and there was no excuse for it. It came on at the 6 month interval, and by then there was at least 15k on the dino in it (and this is being conservative). Likely not a coincidence that her 2001 Civic, which is as easy on oil as they come, was one of the worst engines I've ever heard. I didn't even want to look at the stick to see how nasty it was.
I tossed her a bottle of Rislone I had no plans to use as a pre-breakup parting gift for the sake of her abused engine. It wasn't going into mine, and hers was in such bad shape that it needed any help it could get (no matter how marginal).
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
I can defend the old 3k rule of thumb (for joe or jill average who doesn't know an oil dipstick from a transmission dipstick) on the basis that its not going to hurt anything to err on more frequent than necessary. And given that this is all too often the only time the fluids are checked, these people are better served by it.
-Spyder
my thoughts exactly. 3k OCI is good for people who never check their oil, and couldn't even pop the hood if their life depended on it. Plus, like many ladies I've dated, if you tell them 3k OCI they will still change it at 5 or later.
My ex ran hers long after the service light came on and there was no excuse for it. It came on at the 6 month interval, and by then there was at least 15k on the dino in it (and this is being conservative). Likely not a coincidence that her 2001 Civic, which is as easy on oil as they come, was one of the worst engines I've ever heard. I didn't even want to look at the stick to see how nasty it was.
I tossed her a bottle of Rislone I had no plans to use as a pre-breakup parting gift for the sake of her abused engine. It wasn't going into mine, and hers was in such bad shape that it needed any help it could get (no matter how marginal).
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Originally Posted By: Nick R
For my car, I will be following the warranty severe service of 7500/6 months. The expy and mustang both have mobil 1 oil and filters, and I told my parents to run them to 7500 or so before changing it again. Except in certain circumstances I don't believe in 3m/3k. Not to
or anything, but that rule has been around since the 60s/70s when nearly all oil was Group I
The same co-worker I referred to earlier was having 3 month oil changes pushed on her by the stealership. She has 11,000 km on it, after 3 years of owning it. I told her back then that, with her usage, they were robbing her blind and to just change it out twice a year: spring & fall.
Given that this was the only bit of education she'd retained, and had forgotten everything I'd explained and showed her with regards to taking the 30 seconds every fill up to check the oil, tire pressure, and give the fluid levels a once over, I realize now I didn't do her any favours. At least by having it changed every 3 months, even with almost no miles between changes, she was also getting the stuff done that she can't be bothered with otherwise.
This is where, when, and why the 3 month or 3k rule has merit. In your case Nick, it obviously doesn't apply, but like me and the majority here, we have an interest in taking care of our vehicles and this stuff gets looked at now matter what our OCI is.
-Spyder
For my car, I will be following the warranty severe service of 7500/6 months. The expy and mustang both have mobil 1 oil and filters, and I told my parents to run them to 7500 or so before changing it again. Except in certain circumstances I don't believe in 3m/3k. Not to
The same co-worker I referred to earlier was having 3 month oil changes pushed on her by the stealership. She has 11,000 km on it, after 3 years of owning it. I told her back then that, with her usage, they were robbing her blind and to just change it out twice a year: spring & fall.
Given that this was the only bit of education she'd retained, and had forgotten everything I'd explained and showed her with regards to taking the 30 seconds every fill up to check the oil, tire pressure, and give the fluid levels a once over, I realize now I didn't do her any favours. At least by having it changed every 3 months, even with almost no miles between changes, she was also getting the stuff done that she can't be bothered with otherwise.
This is where, when, and why the 3 month or 3k rule has merit. In your case Nick, it obviously doesn't apply, but like me and the majority here, we have an interest in taking care of our vehicles and this stuff gets looked at now matter what our OCI is.
-Spyder
Thank you for this thread: so your parents went along with the advice you see here all the time and the engine looked like censored. So you see for yourself, the hard way. Some engines are not going to do good on this improved oil. Even though the oil makes you sleep better, it sucks for protecting some engines. Always there is an example of uncle Jed in Sani Flush who put 670,000 on his Vega, Wally dino, and never had any trouble other than his dome light. But in real life this is not the case. Makes for good stuff on a web-site like this but again the engine you are talking about is censored.We would be better in using common sense that reading some opinion based on diner info. Thanks again for info.
quote=Rachael]3K is usually excessive for most cars... but I hate how people just automatically tell people it's okay to run their oil for 7000 miles or more. Yeah, a STOCK car that does mostly highway miles and has a modern engine... that I would say extended OCI. But my parents changed the oil on their Suburban w/ 5.7 every 5-7K.... on the modern conventional oil that everyone now says is so indestructible and magical.... and the motor looked like [censored] when I took it apart at 185K.
I don't like all these consumer articles and such brainwashing people into thinking it's okay to neglect their car's maintenance. I can just see all the people out there that forget to change their oil thinking, "Wow, I guess that isn't so bad after all." [/quote]
I don't like all these consumer articles and such brainwashing people into thinking it's okay to neglect their car's maintenance. I can just see all the people out there that forget to change their oil thinking, "Wow, I guess that isn't so bad after all." [/quote]
Ha ha, my female friend had a Civic that never saw OC and was usually run on 1q. I'd top it w/ 20w-50 or 15w-40, that was it. Still running since 1996.
I am finding that it may be beneficial to crawl under the car more often as it ages. While doing the 9300 mile oil change over the weekend (11 months) I noted some oil in a couple of places, just moist so now need to keep an eye out to see if a one shot deal or maybe a leak. Crawling under the car every 3000 is probably a good thing but I can also do that without changing the oil and should get under there. For those that never look at their engine there is some good to having the OCI shorter to have someone (hopefully an honest tech) look under to scout things out.
My philosophy is if you start that engine and the majority of starts drive it at least 10 miles you are okay to be normal service and the longer OCI per the manual. Mine are longer based on years of wasting money on UOA ( yea, pretty much useless IMO) and using synthetic. I know I can go longer than 9000 or so (have with children's vehicles)but sometimes one just has to satisfy the oil change urge.
My philosophy is if you start that engine and the majority of starts drive it at least 10 miles you are okay to be normal service and the longer OCI per the manual. Mine are longer based on years of wasting money on UOA ( yea, pretty much useless IMO) and using synthetic. I know I can go longer than 9000 or so (have with children's vehicles)but sometimes one just has to satisfy the oil change urge.
Well, I do 3k mi changes but my car shreds oil and I also worry about intake valve deposits. I'm not sure if this is correct, maybe someone can inform me about it, but my thinking is, the oil is less likely to burn off with fewer miles. In essence there would be more intake valve deposits accumulating with the more miles the oil is ran. Anyone know if this is correct?
Anyhow, according to Terry Dyson, in a car like mine, even the mighty M1 0w40 is only good for 1k miles. And I can tell you for a fact it shears PP 5w30 to a 20 weight by 1k miles.
I also like changing the oil on it though and so it isn't about the money, just like to work on and take care of my car. Every oil I have I got on an oil special, and I can afford 3k mile changes on it. My wife and daughter's vehicles, I run extended OCI's on. Well, I go by the OLM on one of them, the other I do blind 8k mile changes on.
Anyhow, according to Terry Dyson, in a car like mine, even the mighty M1 0w40 is only good for 1k miles. And I can tell you for a fact it shears PP 5w30 to a 20 weight by 1k miles.
I also like changing the oil on it though and so it isn't about the money, just like to work on and take care of my car. Every oil I have I got on an oil special, and I can afford 3k mile changes on it. My wife and daughter's vehicles, I run extended OCI's on. Well, I go by the OLM on one of them, the other I do blind 8k mile changes on.
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Ha ha, my female friend had a Civic that never saw OC and was usually run on 1q. I'd top it w/ 20w-50 or 15w-40, that was it. Still running since 1996.
When I worked at a WM TLE, had a female customer who did this with a late 1980's/early 1990's Civic.
Drive up to the shop door, engine clattering away. We'd check it, no oil on d/s, add 2.5-3 quarts of PYB 5W-30, engine would quiet right down.
She'd give us enough money to cover the oil, never want change or a receipt, and race away b/c she was always 'in a hurry' for something...did that like 2-3 times while I was there. Car just kept going.....
Ha ha, my female friend had a Civic that never saw OC and was usually run on 1q. I'd top it w/ 20w-50 or 15w-40, that was it. Still running since 1996.
When I worked at a WM TLE, had a female customer who did this with a late 1980's/early 1990's Civic.
Drive up to the shop door, engine clattering away. We'd check it, no oil on d/s, add 2.5-3 quarts of PYB 5W-30, engine would quiet right down.
She'd give us enough money to cover the oil, never want change or a receipt, and race away b/c she was always 'in a hurry' for something...did that like 2-3 times while I was there. Car just kept going.....
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
While I disagree with the arbitrary 3k changes that my boss so emphatically recommends (he does it for the "wrong" reasons), I believe it's beneficial to our customers in the end because it means they're at our garage where we can monitor their fluid levels and inspect the rest of their cars and warn them of potential issues before they get to be a danger to the driver or the cause an expensive repair.
The unfortunate truth about your theory is that many quick lubes really do not give the car a proper inspection (brakes, suspension) and don't even fill up the tires to the correct specs.
While I disagree with the arbitrary 3k changes that my boss so emphatically recommends (he does it for the "wrong" reasons), I believe it's beneficial to our customers in the end because it means they're at our garage where we can monitor their fluid levels and inspect the rest of their cars and warn them of potential issues before they get to be a danger to the driver or the cause an expensive repair.
The unfortunate truth about your theory is that many quick lubes really do not give the car a proper inspection (brakes, suspension) and don't even fill up the tires to the correct specs.
3k miles still do apply to many. But on bitog it doesn't(unless you have a sludger) becuz we maintain and constantly check our fluids. If someones says for example any synthetic can do 6k easily is a fool. Unless you know the persons driving conditions you cannot give them a interval recommendation. Also so many people in this country have no idea on car maintenance so to keep there cars running they come in every 3 to 4 k for a simple oil change. To the people that are against 3k oil intervals and the people that are for it. You have to look at both sides of the coin. Now for the people that change there oil every 1000 miles (refering to some z owners I know) with motul and mobil. It makes me cringe so wasteful.
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
When was the last time you saw anyone check their tire pressure and fluids while at the self-service pump? The few times I've seen it done were by cab drivers, whose living depends on their vehicle needing to go anywhere, anytime, and down time is also lost income.
I do that stuff at home.
When was the last time you saw anyone check their tire pressure and fluids while at the self-service pump? The few times I've seen it done were by cab drivers, whose living depends on their vehicle needing to go anywhere, anytime, and down time is also lost income.
I do that stuff at home.
I started changing my fleet based on 6 months time, not mileage.
We usually get 5500-6000 miles out of 6 months, that is fine enough for me and my cheap quaker state dino.
I just try to make it far enough into the fall so that I don't have to change oil all winter.
I'm toying with the idea of Mobil1 0w30 over the winter, just to keep me from doing it all winter.
We usually get 5500-6000 miles out of 6 months, that is fine enough for me and my cheap quaker state dino.
I just try to make it far enough into the fall so that I don't have to change oil all winter.
I'm toying with the idea of Mobil1 0w30 over the winter, just to keep me from doing it all winter.
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